Can you squish a rope and make it useless?

Post by **Thrax** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:14 am

What is tourch? What if you have the GriGri attached through the belay loop only and then turn your body 90 degrees left or right and then belay from this new standing position? What effect does this have on the rope? When the wall is really steep I will belay with my back to the wall as this is easier on the neck. This is 180 degrees out of sync from when the Grigri was first attached to the belay loop. Is this a bad thing to do? From my experience this could turn into a very tourchy subject. Also, following Artsays' logic it would appear that tying in could also tourch the rope. A rope makes a lot of twist and turns on the way to a figure 8. What happens to the rope if a climber turns sideways to the rock and then falls?

Post by **Artsay** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:32 am

Basically, when you have the GriGri on *correctly* (from what I've read), it looks a lot different than most folks use it. I.e. You know that smoothed metal flap on the device by the picture of the hand? You know how your rope never touches that when you have the GriGri on a biner going through the bottom and top of your harness? Well, if you use the GriGri on a belay loop then the rope naturally filps over and slides nicely on that flap. And the release handle is actually pulled towards you (from front to back), not from sideways right to left (if you're right handed). <Visualization mode> ...So when you use it the way it was designed, the rope comes straight into the device as if it were going through the center of your chest, then runs through the device, and exits on the same plane two inches in front of where it entered (away from you) instead of coming in and exiting from left to right. It's hard to explain in text but if you can see it with weight on the rope then you'll see how using it properly doesn't put torque (thanks Thrax

) on the rope and using it improperly does.

Post by **Crankmas** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:05 pm

are we trying to deal with torque here?

Post by **Thrax** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:12 pm

Actually, the rope is always in the same plane. It comes in through one side of the device and out the other regardless of how it is attached to the harness. How one attaches the device to the harness does not change this fact. It just looks different. Also, attaching the GriGri through the tie in loops does not torque anything 45 degrees. The device is simply oriented 90 degrees from the other possible way of attachment to the harness. When a load is placed on the device the only torque on it is to the camming device(the part that pinches the rope). The device will remain in the plane in which it was attached. If you have trouble visualizing this, then try an experiment. Attach a rope overhead. Now attach the GriGri to your harness through your belay loop and hang there. Observe. Then attach it through the tie in loops and hang there. Observe. Your will see no 45 degree rotation. Gravity simply acts straight downwards. I think the 45 degree "thing" that Artsay is getting so torqued about is caused by the belayer. It happens like this. With the GriGri attached through the tie in loops. Most people hold the lever their palm facing inward (thumbs to the outside) when they pull down on the lever to lower they have a tendency to pull inward also. This is what causes the 45 twisting she is so concerned about. Do the science and you will be a believer.

Post by **Artsay** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:09 pm

All I know is what some guy from Petzl showed me literature on about how the device should be used correctly. The ropes at our gym were wearing down quickly and he showed us why. I'm not "torqued about" anything, Thrax. I'm just relaying some info that I was told from (what I believe to be) a reputable source.

Thrax's experiment won't work unless weight is on the rope. That's what causes the device to move to it's natural position. And the natural position of a GriGri is legthwise perpendicular to the body. When the device is used on a biner through the top and bottom loops on the harness then the GriGri is unable to move to it's natural postion, thus causing the rope to get pressed against the inside of the device when the rope is weighted. It's easy to see when look at it.

Here's a link to Petzl's website. The GriGri in the picture is being used correctly. If when you're using it you can see the pictures in *front* of you, then that is not how the device was designed to be used and the rope will be stressed when the rope is weighted. http://www.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduit ... itAssocie=

Post by **ten8** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:30 pm

Could it be a rope endurance factor? What rope gives the best performance and lasts the longest when you use it with a gri gri?

Post by **Wes** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:45 pm

ten8 wrote:Could it be a rope endurance factor? What rope gives the best performance and lasts the longest when you use it with a gri gri?

KD wrote:I just asked a reasonable question and don't need to be cussed at by anybody. Frankly, I don't plan on posting on this site anymore, the responses to legimate questions are given unreasonably harsh and unnecessary answers. I don't see why the ranker of emcee or whatever has to act so overdefensive and mean. If thats the purpose of the site, then I'm not interested in particiapting.

have a nice day

Post by **MiaRock** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:47 pm

Busted!!!! big brother see all...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:05 pm

Wes, you are such a bitch!

Post by **Wes** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:44 pm

I am, and I am sorry for being that way. KD, just sack up, post as yourself, and tell Sandy to kiss your ass if you think she in being harsh. She can take it, trust me.

Wes