Autumn... 5.6 or 5.6+

Post by **Jeff** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:08 pm

Listen,..what was that?
The voice of reason.
Well said Artsay. (Sorry Andrew I don't mean to be a copycat)

Post by **pigsteak** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:07 pm

come on artsy....you might be shortsighted here....while not a hard tradster by any stretch, I have climbed up to 11 plus on gear...

I think there is a legit concern here about the ratings...I would love input from the traddies on here..esp those who can also crank on hard sport....clarification seems to be in order.

I think there are two dif rating systems for the different disciplines...one would think that 5.10 is 5.10 is 5.10, but I do agree 5.10 trad has buckled my knees way more than 5.10 sport....I think trad seems to take into consideration pro placement, and time spent doing such..(although I think that is wrong)...

it goes back to my earlier statement..I think top roping should be given even a dif rating than leading sport or trad...or else we hump it up, and make the ratings all similar...

feedback please...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:21 pm

I have done "the mantle route"5.10c and "syncroncity"5.11b on T/R. Both are face climbs. Both are at Roadside. I believe both were put up in the eighties. Syncronicity, while graded harder, is not the harder of the two. The mantle route has harder moves and a bigger head game. Both are stellar routes.

Post by **Artsay** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:30 pm

Everyone knows Syncronicity is a grade lower. Shoot, any of those routes I listed in my previous post are harder than Syncronicity.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:32 pm

Well, I was bleeding from my lungs when I got to the anchors. Have you gotten on "harder than your husband"?

Post by **SCIN** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:56 pm

Well, I've onsited a shit load of 5.12 sport routes but all the 5.12 trad routes I've done have taken more work. This is mostly because when you're dealing with a crack, it's not usually obvious as to where your fingers are going to fit, what the gear is gonna be, etc. Once you get it worked out, a 5.12 crack feels the same as a 5.12 bolted route (to me at least).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:24 pm

an onsight of a non-parrallel crack would be an acomplishment indeed!

Post by **charlie** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:03 pm

Sport route grades (as hard as I've climbed) are pretty linear at the red -- higher = harder.

Trad routes at the Red can effectively be broken down using the following methods.

5.5 > 5.6 > 5.7 > 5.9 > 5.9- > 5.9+ > 5.10a > 5.8 > 5.10b > 5.8+ > 5.10c/d > 5.11a/b and so on but that's about as far as my experience takes me.

That said, anything put up before '91 gets an automatic 2 number grade addition and everything should be treated as suspect until at least 2 routes at the wall have been climbed for reference sake. It's all relative. Routes at fortress (not counting battlement or lizards) will be graded easier than routes at the small walls.

Also, route grades are like recipes. They should be considered only a guideline. There are exceptions all over the place.

HTH

Post by **rhunt** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:18 pm

So most seem to agree that ratings are inconsistent and that's nothing new, it's all subjective. BUT do we agree that routes should be rated on the movement only? I think climbs anywhere and with any style should be rated based on their movement and then consistent with other routes in that area.

Post by **pigsteak** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:35 pm

I agree with rhunt on this one...to a point...I think rating a route on its pump factor is bogus....50 5.10 moves to make a 5.12a is standard at the Red...take the sinlge hardest move or collection of crux moves, and base your rating on that... endurance to fend off the pump can be worked on...

SCIN, thanks for your input...but even your experiwence would dictate that onsiting 5.12 trad is way harder than onsiting 5.12 sport..therefeore saying that the ratings are not equal...