Autumn... 5.6 or 5.6+

Post by **pigsteak** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:12 pm

dirt, where ya been? ray ordained piggie the forum bot during his first week...its quite a fun job, and I would not want to let anyone down, ya know.

Post by **Crankmas** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:19 pm

Wasn't Grand Illusion the first 5.13 in the US?, if so I don't buy the sport climbers lead the grade theory, when Yaniro sent that route sport climbers were still juggling what fruit to stuff their lycra with.

Post by **rhunt** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:03 pm

i don't think there was sporting climbing in the US when Grand Illusion went up??

Post by **Crankmas** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:21 pm

You mean Scott Franklin was 4 yrs old?

Post by **pigsteak** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:42 pm

so let me get this straight...people are positing that 5.8 trad is equivalent to 5.10 sport? just want to make sure I am on board this argument, that there are dif rating scales for the two disciplines...(well, we all know sport climbers aren't real climbers...heck, they ought to stay on their plastic walls, and leave the real climbing to the guys with beards)

Post by **ynot** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:47 pm

keep going ,you're getting there.........

Post by **pigsteak** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 10:54 pm

thanks ynot....I believe easily 50-60% of those call themselves climbers are merely gym rats who climb outside once or twice a season...it is equivalent to the recreational "jogger" who does 10 minute miles calling themself a "runner"....noooooo, you are a jogger....

the only thing that bugs me about my traddie friends is their noon starts...if they loved the sport so much, why can't they get their asses out of bed and on the rock....3 pitches, and they call it a day..give me a break...

Post by **Artsay** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:42 pm

pigsteak wrote:so let me get this straight...people are positing that 5.8 trad is equivalent to 5.10 sport? just want to make sure I am on board this argument, that there are dif rating scales for the two disciplines

That's a good question and I don't really understand it but it does go something like that. If someone is a 5.10 trad leader they're looked at pretty highly in the trad world yet someone who leads 5.10 sport is hardly a bad ass. From my own experience, I was sending 5.12 sport routes the same week I was getting spanked on a 5.9 trad route. They're just different kinds of climbing.

I've heard someone say that the ratings are the same for the two and that it just depends on your experience....one who is experienced at trad climbs 5.9's as a warmup, etc. The strange thing is, there are still some hard ass 5.8 and 5.9 trad lines, even for a 5.11 trad leader! I don't know any sport climbs of that grade I could say the same thing about.

To me, it's just climbing and I don't worry about the grade anymore...I just want to have fun. Though I'd probably have to agree that most 5.8 trad routes feel as hard to me as 5.10a/b sport routes.

Post by **tomdarch** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:04 am

I think it's all about the 'feels like' factor. I've TR'd trad 9s, and they felt like 9s. But once you rack up and spend a while figgling gear in, it starts "feeling" much harder compared with a sport climb with equivalent moves. I've managed to redpoint some easy 11 sport climbs, but I'm still sweating about eventually leading Ant Killer in Southern Illinois. I've TRd it fast and with no problems - but I know that having to stop every so often and place gear will make the whole thing "feel" lots harder. It's 'only a 9' but trad leading it will feel more like the effort of a hard 10 sport climb.

Post by **ynot** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:16 am

Nicely put Artsay.It's like the apple and orange thing ,they are just different,even if the movement is the same. I believe the traddies get out just as early as the sporties.I have seen it. I manage 4 pitches or better before I call it a day.