Cleaning Anchors

Post by **rmcfall** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:14 pm

It makes no sense to RETIE back in. UNTIE after feeding the byte through and clipping into it--just lower on the biner attached to the figure eight with a byte. All this tie and untie stuff just complicates matters.

[quote="Mad_Russki"]GWG Said:

"I use a sling attached to one of the anchors with a locker. Before untying the rope, I feed a byte through the rings/chain and then tie a figure 8 with it. This gets attached via a locker to my belay loop. At this point, I then untie my knot and pull the end of the rope through and retie back into my harness where I had untied it. I then undo the locker and untie the figure 8 on a byte and give the slack back to my belayer. Once I have double checked my knot and weighted it, I then undo my sling.

By doing this, I am never off the rope. There is always rope passing from the belayer through the anchors to me.

It might take a little more time but I like having the added security of always being tied in. "

This seems to be the way to do it if you want to do it safely.

Post by **GWG** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:48 pm

Rmcfall,

You are correct. There is no need to tie back in once the figure 8 is attached to the belay loop with a locker. You just end up with a long tail which is no big deal.

I've done it both ways. Tying back in is just the way I was first taught.

GWG

BTW:
I was waiting to get on Pogue Ethics a couple of years ago and there was a guy yelling up to his girl friend each step of doing a rope transfer. 80' off the ground having instructions yelled up is not the way to learn. It was really interesting when he told her to feed the rope through the anchors and she yells down "what anchors, what's an anchor?". Once that was figured out, he yelled back up to tie back into her harness and she yells back down "with what?".

Several people were releaved when her feet were back on solid ground. Checking what she tied back in with, it turned out to be some sort of granny knot. Scary stuff to observe.

Post by **Mad_Russki** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:52 pm

yeah, this variation is very popular. It is indeed much quicker to tie fugure 8 on the end of the rope than to tie yourself in.

Post by **Jeff** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:00 pm

GWG
I have seen that same scenario many times.
I cringe every time it happens.

Post by **Johnny** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:26 pm

Canadagirl et al, the reason I just clip biner to biner is that safety isn't an issue, just convenience. I'm not depending on the draw and biner at all for safety (actually not even depending on the top anchors either). I'm still tied in and on belay the whole time. Of course, I avoid biner to biner on pieces in normal situations, but this manuever is exactly what you do aid climbing (using an oval or Fifi hook) at every piece of gear you put in.

If the biner to biner thing blows, I'm just taking a fall on the top draws anyway. The only "risk" is when you pull up a wad of rope, you increase the potential distance of your fall if everything fails. It's not unlike pulling up a wad of rope to clip a bolt on your way up. Once the bight of rope is through the anchors and a figure 8 is tied, I have another backup if I fall since the knot will jam in the anchors and I'm still tied to the end of the rope. It's only after I've clipped the figure 8 to my harness with a locker (or 2 biners, gates reversed) that I'll untie. Of course, I'm already on belay so there's no increased risk.

I prefer this system to being taken completely off belay and setting up something with sufficient backups to make it safe. The more you tie/untie/clip/re-clip, the more likely you will screw up and die. That's why (agreeing w/ McFall here) we would minimize the steps involved as a method of safety rather than solely concerning ourselves with redundancy. Of course, the only caveat is if the route is very long and only a full half rope length will get you down. In addition, if the anchors are terribly worn, or otherwise insufficient, I'll rap rather than lower to minimize the forces on the anchors.

Post by **deal with it** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:37 pm

I have to say I don't like what I see here. Rap off those anchors. It is a simple thing that takes like 20 sec more but saves the anchors from being destoryed! Don't let me catch you top roping directly off those anchors either or you will get a Camelot enema #3

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:51 pm

deal with it....I top roped off the anchors on your project this weekend..where's my camelot?

I suggest everyone keep two ovals on their belt, and if you see a worn anchor, donate some booty. that way, I can scam it on my next warm up.

Post by **deal with it** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:04 pm

the worse are the cold shuts man those can get beat to hell by people who don't think as for your camelot...meet me in my tent

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:24 pm

lol..I agree..toproping off anchors is poor taste...and down right dangerous in some instances...

Post by **tomdarch** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:54 am

Johnny wrote:One draw and thread a bite through, overhand figure 8 to a locker, and lower with a big tail-- unless I don't think I'll have enough rope, then I'll retie.
One hint: Clip your hanging draw to one of the existing draw's top biner. It's safe enough and keeps the path clearer to thread the rope through the rings/links. If it still doesn't fit, I'll just take the loose draw off (the one I'm not hanging on), thread, reclip, move me to other draw, take the second draw off, thread, then reclip. Not especially safe, but I don't mind the danger. It beaks hangin' on hooks, eh Rhino?

Dude! Who knew Johnny was a 19 year old sportie at heart? (I was introduced to the technique that he describes as a 'quick and dirty' sport trick)

No matter what, I'd gladly chip in for a new set of Fixe 'drop in' shuts for the tops of Sunshine and Moonbeam in order to avoid having to hear the 'my first clean' conversations. Climber "OK! I think I'm on the anchors and I untied my knot - now what?" Belayer "What?"