Cleaning Anchors
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canadaclimbergirl
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:15 pm
I always carry a nut tool when trad climbing..but not when sport climbing. However, the other knife etc stay on my harness at all times.merrick wrote:i have all those things on my harness except for the knife. plus a nut tool. but i usually take that stuff off when i am sport climbing.
The phrase "working mother" is redundant. ~Jane Sellman
One draw and thread a bite through, overhand figure 8 to a locker, and lower with a big tail-- unless I don't think I'll have enough rope, then I'll retie.
One hint: Clip your hanging draw to one of the existing draw's top biner. It's safe enough and keeps the path clearer to thread the rope through the rings/links. If it still doesn't fit, I'll just take the loose draw off (the one I'm not hanging on), thread, reclip, move me to other draw, take the second draw off, thread, then reclip. Not especially safe, but I don't mind the danger. It beaks hangin' on hooks, eh Rhino?
One hint: Clip your hanging draw to one of the existing draw's top biner. It's safe enough and keeps the path clearer to thread the rope through the rings/links. If it still doesn't fit, I'll just take the loose draw off (the one I'm not hanging on), thread, reclip, move me to other draw, take the second draw off, thread, then reclip. Not especially safe, but I don't mind the danger. It beaks hangin' on hooks, eh Rhino?
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canadaclimbergirl
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:15 pm
Biner to biner is fine, as long as you aren't going to fall on them. I, and several others, do this when cleaning or hanging sometimes. And we haven't lost anyone yet.
There are *rules* that some people just blindly follow without understanding why. It is better to know the why, then make a judgement as to weather or not they apply. Like biner to biner, or "single point of failure". These things get passed on as the law, when they are just guidelines. Free your mind from what you have been told, and understand why it was said.
Wes
There are *rules* that some people just blindly follow without understanding why. It is better to know the why, then make a judgement as to weather or not they apply. Like biner to biner, or "single point of failure". These things get passed on as the law, when they are just guidelines. Free your mind from what you have been told, and understand why it was said.
Wes
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda
I go biner on biner too. It really all depends on the situation.
I used to use two slings with lockers. Now I often use a daisy with a locker and the draws at the anchors as a second safety. Or I'll just use draws if I don't want the bulk of my daisy chain.
The reason I started this thread was because my better half has been known to be up at the anchors and do a one-armed pullup to clip himself into the anchors with no backup to speak of...none, zilch, nada. He calls my daisy a "fairy chain" and says I'm the only one who uses one. Fortunately, most of you posted that you use one or something like it. Unfortunately, the only opinion Ray listens to is Johnny's, who obviously has the same "not especially safe but oh well" attitude as Ray. THANKS A LOT JOHNNY BOY!!!
I used to use two slings with lockers. Now I often use a daisy with a locker and the draws at the anchors as a second safety. Or I'll just use draws if I don't want the bulk of my daisy chain.
The reason I started this thread was because my better half has been known to be up at the anchors and do a one-armed pullup to clip himself into the anchors with no backup to speak of...none, zilch, nada. He calls my daisy a "fairy chain" and says I'm the only one who uses one. Fortunately, most of you posted that you use one or something like it. Unfortunately, the only opinion Ray listens to is Johnny's, who obviously has the same "not especially safe but oh well" attitude as Ray. THANKS A LOT JOHNNY BOY!!!
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
On trad:
I use one locking binner + 1 daisy chain to the anchor bolts or chains. A second one set up the same for back up. Since the daisy girth hitched to my belay loop reduces the strength by 50% or more, I only girth hitch one. The other is on a locking biner that's affixed to both leg loops and waist straps.
I then rap down - always.
On sport routes, it's totally different:
I'll go up and get to the anchors with tons of draws from having cleaned the route. While on belay, I'll sit in my harness and attach two quick draws together (yes, non-locking binner to yet another non-locking binner on a daisy chain set up). One end is to the chains / bolts, and the other to the belay loop. I repeat this process that only takes seconds and attach one end of the daisied binners to the anchor, and the other end to my waist loop. I pull 5 feet of rope, stick it in my mouth, untie, pass it through the anchors, and retie. I then get lowered. This has got to be the most "unsafe" setup.
I have been thinking about a new method which consists of taking two of the draws that I have just unclipped from the wall, placing them both side by side and opposed on my belay loop. When I get to the anchors, I will sit, and then pull myself to the shortest section of chain to clip one of the draws. I will then hook up the second draw to a long section of chain for redundancy. My life will depend on a fewer amounts of "bad links" and still will be on two non-locking binners - which seems to be the norm for sport climbing (a new thing for me).
Would that be acceptable? Safe or just safer?
I use one locking binner + 1 daisy chain to the anchor bolts or chains. A second one set up the same for back up. Since the daisy girth hitched to my belay loop reduces the strength by 50% or more, I only girth hitch one. The other is on a locking biner that's affixed to both leg loops and waist straps.
I then rap down - always.
On sport routes, it's totally different:
I'll go up and get to the anchors with tons of draws from having cleaned the route. While on belay, I'll sit in my harness and attach two quick draws together (yes, non-locking binner to yet another non-locking binner on a daisy chain set up). One end is to the chains / bolts, and the other to the belay loop. I repeat this process that only takes seconds and attach one end of the daisied binners to the anchor, and the other end to my waist loop. I pull 5 feet of rope, stick it in my mouth, untie, pass it through the anchors, and retie. I then get lowered. This has got to be the most "unsafe" setup.
I have been thinking about a new method which consists of taking two of the draws that I have just unclipped from the wall, placing them both side by side and opposed on my belay loop. When I get to the anchors, I will sit, and then pull myself to the shortest section of chain to clip one of the draws. I will then hook up the second draw to a long section of chain for redundancy. My life will depend on a fewer amounts of "bad links" and still will be on two non-locking binners - which seems to be the norm for sport climbing (a new thing for me).
Would that be acceptable? Safe or just safer?
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
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canadaclimbergirl
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:15 pm
I know it is fine as long as you aren't going to fall...however I think it is a bad example to set if you are climbing with newbies. I teach a lot of people basic toproping skills...cleaning anchors is one of them. I would hate for one of my students to be at the crag and see me doing something that I had told them not to. I like to do things the safest way possible....because why risk anything? It isn't worth it for the sake of saving 5 min.Wes wrote:Biner to biner is fine, as long as you aren't going to fall on them. I, and several others, do this when cleaning or hanging sometimes. And we haven't lost anyone yet.
There are *rules* that some people just blindly follow without understanding why. It is better to know the why, then make a judgement as to weather or not they apply. Like biner to biner, or "single point of failure". These things get passed on as the law, when they are just guidelines. Free your mind from what you have been told, and understand why it was said.
Wes
The phrase "working mother" is redundant. ~Jane Sellman
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Mad_Russki
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:56 am
GWG Said:
"I use a sling attached to one of the anchors with a locker. Before untying the rope, I feed a byte through the rings/chain and then tie a figure 8 with it. This gets attached via a locker to my belay loop. At this point, I then untie my knot and pull the end of the rope through and retie back into my harness where I had untied it. I then undo the locker and untie the figure 8 on a byte and give the slack back to my belayer. Once I have double checked my knot and weighted it, I then undo my sling.
By doing this, I am never off the rope. There is always rope passing from the belayer through the anchors to me.
It might take a little more time but I like having the added security of always being tied in. "
This seems to be the way to do it if you want to do it safely.
There are variations with regard to attaching yourself to anchors (two draws, sling, etc.). In any case, I would warn strongly against attaching the figure 8 knot you tie in to secure the rope ANYWHERE BUT YOUR BELAY LOOP (this not only relates to cleaning the anchors on a sport route, but in any situation when this is your only rope, since unusual situations happen, here is one of them: one of my friends, a very experienced sport, trad, etc. climber, was climbing at one of the popular places back in Moscow. The place is such that after you get up to the top you can traverse and set a toprope on another route, but you have to climb out fully to the top and walk over to the next route. He pulled the rope, attached it to his harness and walked over to the next route. I am sure he has done the same thing before multiple times. So when he set up a new route, he somehow forgot that his knot that was holding the rope was attached to his harness loop and not his belay loop (i have no clue why it was not noticed, maybe he was tired, distracted, hurried, maybe too much was involved in setting toprope. Who knows, the fact is, it CAN happen). The loop ripped and he fell and died 3 days later in a coma).
Anyways, most climbing books recommend attaching the rope to your belay loop as well and it seems like a good idea. I understand that some people, especially the beginners, do not like it, since it creates a little mess on your belay loop, with so many things being attached there at the same time. A little practice at home usually helps to get things straight.
"I use a sling attached to one of the anchors with a locker. Before untying the rope, I feed a byte through the rings/chain and then tie a figure 8 with it. This gets attached via a locker to my belay loop. At this point, I then untie my knot and pull the end of the rope through and retie back into my harness where I had untied it. I then undo the locker and untie the figure 8 on a byte and give the slack back to my belayer. Once I have double checked my knot and weighted it, I then undo my sling.
By doing this, I am never off the rope. There is always rope passing from the belayer through the anchors to me.
It might take a little more time but I like having the added security of always being tied in. "
This seems to be the way to do it if you want to do it safely. There are variations with regard to attaching yourself to anchors (two draws, sling, etc.). In any case, I would warn strongly against attaching the figure 8 knot you tie in to secure the rope ANYWHERE BUT YOUR BELAY LOOP (this not only relates to cleaning the anchors on a sport route, but in any situation when this is your only rope, since unusual situations happen, here is one of them: one of my friends, a very experienced sport, trad, etc. climber, was climbing at one of the popular places back in Moscow. The place is such that after you get up to the top you can traverse and set a toprope on another route, but you have to climb out fully to the top and walk over to the next route. He pulled the rope, attached it to his harness and walked over to the next route. I am sure he has done the same thing before multiple times. So when he set up a new route, he somehow forgot that his knot that was holding the rope was attached to his harness loop and not his belay loop (i have no clue why it was not noticed, maybe he was tired, distracted, hurried, maybe too much was involved in setting toprope. Who knows, the fact is, it CAN happen). The loop ripped and he fell and died 3 days later in a coma).
Anyways, most climbing books recommend attaching the rope to your belay loop as well and it seems like a good idea. I understand that some people, especially the beginners, do not like it, since it creates a little mess on your belay loop, with so many things being attached there at the same time. A little practice at home usually helps to get things straight.
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canadaclimbergirl
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:15 pm
Thank you for your story Mad Russki. Things like this show that you can never to too safe.
Pick up a copy of Accidents in NA mountaineering if you want to read about very experienced climbers in bad situations. Eye openers for everyone, and a good way to learn from others mistakes.
Pick up a copy of Accidents in NA mountaineering if you want to read about very experienced climbers in bad situations. Eye openers for everyone, and a good way to learn from others mistakes.
The phrase "working mother" is redundant. ~Jane Sellman