SHM's only objective was to piss people off, and sounds a lot like the pig thing.
My main point is that overhanging routes are just as technical as vertical or slab routes........they simply incorporate different techniques.
Technical......of or pertaining to technique.
Technique......1) the systematic proceedure by which a complex task is completed, 2) the degree of skill or command of FUNDEMENTALS exhibited is any performance. "AHD"
Kneebars, heelhooks, toehooks, diagionaling, flaging, backflagging, controlling the heart rate, sprinting, etc. are all techniques that on a vertical wall are usually never needed, because the movement is footwork oriented.
The red is very diverse, the climb I got on this weekend is a great example: only two jugs in the first 70 feet, a couple cross over moves, razor blade crimps, iron box pockets, an iron cross move, a throw, underclings, sidepulls, and a powerful (2) crux, yet balance and footwork are the deciding factors.
Bottom line is the RED is awesome fun climbing, and has the best (and most friendly) social scene around.
If you disagree.......then you simply don't fit in and we don't care. Go home and don't come back.
G
Right to the big chalked jug, left to the big chalk jug
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jabbathehut
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:17 pm
Spoon,
I'm impressed with your ability to exicute such technical moves, I didn't even know kentucky climbers had such a vocabulary.
But just because you were able to use cross over's, underclings and sidepulls does not mean they were needed, if in fact the route you climbed is at the Red you could have simply followed the chalked ladder to get to the top.
I do incurage you however to use such diverse moves, but lets face it, at the Red the "easist" sequence requires no more technique then it does to drop your pants and take a shit.
I'm impressed with your ability to exicute such technical moves, I didn't even know kentucky climbers had such a vocabulary.
But just because you were able to use cross over's, underclings and sidepulls does not mean they were needed, if in fact the route you climbed is at the Red you could have simply followed the chalked ladder to get to the top.
I do incurage you however to use such diverse moves, but lets face it, at the Red the "easist" sequence requires no more technique then it does to drop your pants and take a shit.
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jeffers_mz
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:23 pm
1. In my experience, the grading in the RRG is about 2 grades soft compared to Eldo and Lumpy Ridge, one to two grades hard compared to Boulder Canyon, and about the same as Foster Falls. So what?
2. I like climbing in the Red. Good people, good rock.
3. It doesn't matter to me if this Stronghandman guy is a made up character or not, he clearly likes to yank people's chains and goes well out of his way to do so. If he can't get a rise from you telling you your home crag isn't any good, then he'll just attack you for the clothes you wear while climbing. Made up identity or real person, the definition of 'troll' is still met, and I'll always value my own assessments and opinions over somebody who can't get attention without harshing somebody else's buzz.
Don't feed the trolls.
2. I like climbing in the Red. Good people, good rock.
3. It doesn't matter to me if this Stronghandman guy is a made up character or not, he clearly likes to yank people's chains and goes well out of his way to do so. If he can't get a rise from you telling you your home crag isn't any good, then he'll just attack you for the clothes you wear while climbing. Made up identity or real person, the definition of 'troll' is still met, and I'll always value my own assessments and opinions over somebody who can't get attention without harshing somebody else's buzz.
Don't feed the trolls.
Jeffers, The red is not soft compared to eldo.I and would be willing to bet i have done alot more routes at both places to make that comparison. Lumpy maybe, but then granite always feels a little harder till you get use to it.Boulder canyon, go do country club crack and tell me it would be 2 grades easier in the red.
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jeffers_mz
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:23 pm
T-bone, in effect you're agreeing with my point, while disagreeing on specifics. Different routes in different places on different days are going to feel harder or softer to different climbers. So what? It don't affect either sack size or the enjoyment I get from climbing a route. I doubt it does for you either. If you think that a 5.9 is always going to go at the same difficulty for any and all climbers no matter where it is on earth, then we have a real disagreement to discuss. If you agree that the ratings can be very subjective from place to place, and recognize that the subjectivity of the ratings isn't worth feeding a troll over, then we're on the same page.
yo
ynot......an iron cross move fully extends both arms in opposite directions.
I think there is a blind generalization regarding what technical actually means. Most people think of a slab route, or vertical wall as being technical?
By defintion (in climbing) it would be: the use of fundementals to succesfully free climb a specific route. Quantitatively, there are more (different) techniques in steep routes compared to vertical routes. It can be argued Qualitatively, that you do not need the techiques at the RED to get up them, but this is unsubstantiated.
I believe that if you are climbing (at the RED) at your limit then it is your technique that will make you successful (or not) before you flamed out. Of course, you have to solid base of endurance, but edurance itself is a technical issue: if you are to attain it (ex. ever heard of capilarity?)
I put up this slab route (70 degrees) in CO, a few years back. 120 foot, with about 90 foot of no holds larger than a 1/4, mostly smaller. Most people would call this technical. It actually uses the same high foot, rock up/mantle/balance, trade feet, rest, repeating the sequences the whole way. The route must be climbed slow and is meticulus- while moving. In my experience, the same goes for most vertical routes. In no manner would i call it more technical, than the steep diverse moves on a red Classic, like TOC.
I think there is a blind generalization regarding what technical actually means. Most people think of a slab route, or vertical wall as being technical?
By defintion (in climbing) it would be: the use of fundementals to succesfully free climb a specific route. Quantitatively, there are more (different) techniques in steep routes compared to vertical routes. It can be argued Qualitatively, that you do not need the techiques at the RED to get up them, but this is unsubstantiated.
I believe that if you are climbing (at the RED) at your limit then it is your technique that will make you successful (or not) before you flamed out. Of course, you have to solid base of endurance, but edurance itself is a technical issue: if you are to attain it (ex. ever heard of capilarity?)
I put up this slab route (70 degrees) in CO, a few years back. 120 foot, with about 90 foot of no holds larger than a 1/4, mostly smaller. Most people would call this technical. It actually uses the same high foot, rock up/mantle/balance, trade feet, rest, repeating the sequences the whole way. The route must be climbed slow and is meticulus- while moving. In my experience, the same goes for most vertical routes. In no manner would i call it more technical, than the steep diverse moves on a red Classic, like TOC.
aman spoonman. I deffinitally think tecnique is required in the red. you use lots of heal hooks, drop knees, side pulls, underclings, pinches etc... I can think of few routes that exclusively use downward pulling holds. Just because it's not about precise foot work doesn't mean it's not about tecnique. You still have to know how to climb on steep rock and how to move your body.
spoonman..OK, I can only argue with one part of your post. I am currently working on TOC, and whole heartedly disdagree that it is a technical route...
up to the first crux, it is all about endurance. sloppy feet will still get you there. now at the crux, I am not so sure. I think on a redpoint burn, precise technique will be what gets you thru it. but here has been my experience so far...run it right up to the crux, fall going into the crux, and hang for maybe a minute. I can then fire the thing to the top. on opne hand, I tell myself I am close to sending, becaue I can get on with relatively little rest..on the other hand, I have fallen at this same exact spot probably a dozen times now....anyway, I would not consider TOC a technical climb...I would say it is an endurance climb with a technical crux...
too many puppies, if that is you limit, would have more technical moves than TOC...just my thoughts...
up to the first crux, it is all about endurance. sloppy feet will still get you there. now at the crux, I am not so sure. I think on a redpoint burn, precise technique will be what gets you thru it. but here has been my experience so far...run it right up to the crux, fall going into the crux, and hang for maybe a minute. I can then fire the thing to the top. on opne hand, I tell myself I am close to sending, becaue I can get on with relatively little rest..on the other hand, I have fallen at this same exact spot probably a dozen times now....anyway, I would not consider TOC a technical climb...I would say it is an endurance climb with a technical crux...
too many puppies, if that is you limit, would have more technical moves than TOC...just my thoughts...
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.