ok ok, it is not so simple. and thats the point. the illegal population of this country has both a positive and negative effect. putting up "fences" might not even be in the best interest of the country. but opening the borders completely is not either.
hmmm, maybe this is complicated enough that a bunch of climbers who are not educated in the specifics of the issue can't even really say anything intelligent about it. and maybe the politicians realize that the people really don't know or understand the issue and they exploit the consituent's ignorance. hmm maybe that is the nature of how to weild power and control.
how ironic
i think you are on to something..most of us prefer our ivory towers....
do I give up 10% of my wages to a min wage worker...? no way, i love my car and my ability to waste gas every wekeend. I prefer to rant and rave on here instead of anything practical..call me a hypocrite..I say realist...
as long as it doesn't affect me in a visible way, I'd prefer for it to be kept hidden...isn't that the American way?
do I give up 10% of my wages to a min wage worker...? no way, i love my car and my ability to waste gas every wekeend. I prefer to rant and rave on here instead of anything practical..call me a hypocrite..I say realist...
as long as it doesn't affect me in a visible way, I'd prefer for it to be kept hidden...isn't that the American way?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
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Guest
Merrick Said
Pigsteak Said
That is definately how politicians weild power and control. Always has been, always will.maybe the politicians realize that the people really don't know or understand the issue and they exploit the consituent's ignorance. hmm maybe that is the nature of how to weild power and control
Pigsteak Said
That is the way of the World. Of course, I still don't like it.as long as it doesn't affect me in a visible way, I'd prefer for it to be kept hidden...isn't that the American way?
Yasmeen wrote:
Hey Scaife-- why'd you capitalize Trad, but not sport? Are you trying to stir the shit pot or what?
Hey Scaife-- why'd you capitalize Trad, but not sport? Are you trying to stir the shit pot or what?
the way I look at it..every minute I spend pursuing my selfish pursuits of outdoor recreation is a minute I "could" be spending fighting for a cause I believe in...since I have free will to choose, and I choose my self interests and personal pursuits, one would be safe to say my self preservation is more important to me than any illegal immigrant, any cause, any supposed belief system I put on a pedestal without immersing myself in it. All blather and no lather..(thanks to my late gramps)
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
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Guest
pigsteak, I love you dude, I truely do.
I want to say that I have been a crusader and all it ever did was disappoint me. There is nothing worth fighting for other than family and friends. The selfish persuit of outdoor recreation counts just as much as and maybe more, if you consider that, what you decide to "believe in" may have a negative effect.
Par example; Let's say you go after the border jumpers, You don't know their life. What they are trying to escape to or from. You could be killing people by sending them back. Do you want something like that on your conscience? The reason that I got into climbing is that I had a bunch of climbing and repelling equipment left over from job in Africa.
I was hooked up with a group of "security specialists" from Europe. But when it came down to it....... I wasn't willing to kill for someone elses politics...... When you look down down range and you see a woman packing a fifty pound sack of grain, You are given orders to kill because she's stealing from your employer. What do you do....... You shoot the bag, scare the woman into dropping it and you quit your job and go home. All the while telling people that killing and dying are noble concepts until it comes to the deed. Fuck politics and fuck politicians. Fuck borders.Fuck poor people and Fuck rich people. Climb and forget about the bullshit. You call it recreation, would you rather that I DO something that I "believe in"?
I want to say that I have been a crusader and all it ever did was disappoint me. There is nothing worth fighting for other than family and friends. The selfish persuit of outdoor recreation counts just as much as and maybe more, if you consider that, what you decide to "believe in" may have a negative effect.
Par example; Let's say you go after the border jumpers, You don't know their life. What they are trying to escape to or from. You could be killing people by sending them back. Do you want something like that on your conscience? The reason that I got into climbing is that I had a bunch of climbing and repelling equipment left over from job in Africa.
I was hooked up with a group of "security specialists" from Europe. But when it came down to it....... I wasn't willing to kill for someone elses politics...... When you look down down range and you see a woman packing a fifty pound sack of grain, You are given orders to kill because she's stealing from your employer. What do you do....... You shoot the bag, scare the woman into dropping it and you quit your job and go home. All the while telling people that killing and dying are noble concepts until it comes to the deed. Fuck politics and fuck politicians. Fuck borders.Fuck poor people and Fuck rich people. Climb and forget about the bullshit. You call it recreation, would you rather that I DO something that I "believe in"?
Rant on . . .
If you really believe and/or know people who are U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents who are interested in working low paying jobs in agriculture in this country have them get in touch with me and I'll try and get them jobs. Each year Kentucky imports almost 4,000 H-2A temporary agricultural workers from foreign countries to work the tobacco harvest. They are permitted to do this only after they advertise the jobs and offer them to U.S. citizens and permanent residents and/or others legally authorized to work here. They never get any takers. Not many people are willing to work 12 hour days in the middle of the summer in Kentucky cutting tobacco. Some are, but not many. The wages aren't good and the job conditions are even worse. It is all about supply and demand. If growers and other employers raised wages and improved working conditions then yes, there wouldn't be a need for us to "import" workers. However, as Merrick says, the low prices that people are used to paying in the U.S. for vegetables, clothes, etc. don't allow for much in the way of improving wages and working conditions. At some point the supply curve meets the demand curve and people who are here legally will take these crappy jobs, but employers aren't even close to offering enough to entice legal residents to take the majority of these jobs.
Rant off.
If you really believe and/or know people who are U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents who are interested in working low paying jobs in agriculture in this country have them get in touch with me and I'll try and get them jobs. Each year Kentucky imports almost 4,000 H-2A temporary agricultural workers from foreign countries to work the tobacco harvest. They are permitted to do this only after they advertise the jobs and offer them to U.S. citizens and permanent residents and/or others legally authorized to work here. They never get any takers. Not many people are willing to work 12 hour days in the middle of the summer in Kentucky cutting tobacco. Some are, but not many. The wages aren't good and the job conditions are even worse. It is all about supply and demand. If growers and other employers raised wages and improved working conditions then yes, there wouldn't be a need for us to "import" workers. However, as Merrick says, the low prices that people are used to paying in the U.S. for vegetables, clothes, etc. don't allow for much in the way of improving wages and working conditions. At some point the supply curve meets the demand curve and people who are here legally will take these crappy jobs, but employers aren't even close to offering enough to entice legal residents to take the majority of these jobs.
Rant off.
"You're name isn't Rio, but I don't care for sand."
Very well put Jim.
One could argue that we could tell the agriculture industry that they can't hire foreign workers, but that would raise the price, and companies would just buy their goods from other countries.
But we could take the high road, and say 'We will not participate in slave wages', but one could argue that we would be forcing these workers back to countries where the conditions and wages are even worse.
It's the argument of 'Well, somebody's going to make money in this business, so why not let it be us. As long as the conditions are better than other counties, then that's what we'll hang our hat on.'
It all comes down to the lesser of two evils......
Sort of hard to argue against that.....
Unless one is blinded by thought that the world is perfect.
Hmmm, I kind of changed sides on this issue.
But, the original issue was Wal-Mart, and they don't compete globally, so they have no excuse. I as a consumer am no longer shopping there.
Hmmm.... Anyone know where else you can buy cheap DVD's?
One could argue that we could tell the agriculture industry that they can't hire foreign workers, but that would raise the price, and companies would just buy their goods from other countries.
But we could take the high road, and say 'We will not participate in slave wages', but one could argue that we would be forcing these workers back to countries where the conditions and wages are even worse.
It's the argument of 'Well, somebody's going to make money in this business, so why not let it be us. As long as the conditions are better than other counties, then that's what we'll hang our hat on.'
It all comes down to the lesser of two evils......
Sort of hard to argue against that.....
Unless one is blinded by thought that the world is perfect.
Hmmm, I kind of changed sides on this issue.
But, the original issue was Wal-Mart, and they don't compete globally, so they have no excuse. I as a consumer am no longer shopping there.
Hmmm.... Anyone know where else you can buy cheap DVD's?
Yasmeen wrote:
Hey Scaife-- why'd you capitalize Trad, but not sport? Are you trying to stir the shit pot or what?
Hey Scaife-- why'd you capitalize Trad, but not sport? Are you trying to stir the shit pot or what?
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Guest