SOUTHERN REGION

Post by **chriss** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:05 pm

I went to the southern region yesterday, and the gates leading to oil crack and arena are still up.

Post by **Artsay** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:07 pm

I'm surprised no one has posted any more info about this! You seem to know the most of anyone, JH (though I know you, yourself, didn't take 'em down). So wassup? You're saying only one gate was torn down? Was it by a climber, ATVer, or what?

Post by **Bruisebrother** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:21 pm

Yuo'al need to get a grip on reality! Those roads off the Fixer right-of -way are not public. They were built by the mineral rights owner for thier access, the roads are theirs. They don't have to maintain them for anyone elses use and apparently don't have to let anyone else use them for access. Hence the gates! If the proper homework was done months ago and the mineral-rights-agreement was reviewed this problem wouldn't be! THIS IS NOT A RESPONSE FROM THE RED RIVER GORGE CLIMBERS COALITON, but my own educated remarks! WAKE UP AMERICA!

Post by **Lateralus** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:17 pm

The roads are on private property, would you like a road to your driveway gated? All the gates are still up as far as I can tell but a short walk from the lode parking lot will get you up to any crag over there. Solar collector is still up as of yesterday. Perhaps if this persists, some letters to the EPA are in order?

Post by **SikMonkey** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:58 pm

Ya know, I was discussing that with a friend just yesterday. A few well placed phone calls could raise a lot of hell for the Good Ol' Boy Oil Company. And if you think they are already bought off, just ask some of the coal companies in the region what happens when you screw up the groundwater.

Mj

Post by **young'n climber** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:06 am

im so lost

Post by **Bruisebrother** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:20 am

Laterous, you don't seem to know much about mineral-rights! Children, your phone calls will only bring a swarm of hornets onto every one's chance to climb in the southern region. WAKE UP AMERICA!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:28 am

Artsay wrote:I'm surprised no one has posted any more info about this! You seem to know the most of anyone, JH (though I know you, yourself, didn't take 'em down). So wassup? You're saying only one gate was torn down? Was it by a climber, ATVer, or what?

There was a group of climbers that were at the gunsight notch going across the high-line.(That ain't climbing, that's just crazy!) They were there for only an hour and they heard a big crash. There were no other climbers in the valley(coal bank hollow) The climbers saw the gate on the ground when they came out.(They were using the back way in, up that steep hill). It was told to me when they returned to Miguels. That's what I know of the (1) gate that was torn down. Now they have set that gate in concrete and you just can't plow through it.
I personnally think that it was 4-wheelers or dope growers. I don't think it was climbers because the only climbers in the valley were at the gunsight notch. This happened late on Sunday afternoon (last week). Not a typical time for climbers to be running around the southern region. Late Sundays are usually pretty dead out there.
The reason that I know all this is because I was climbing in the southern region on Saturday,Sunday ,Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday morning. College life sucks like that.

Now that brings us to today. All was calm this afternoon. I was climbing in the arena with a crew from Chicago. there was only one other set of climbers that I know of in the whole Southern region.I saw no other cars, and no other climbers. We drove right up to the crag. Almost all of the ways into the climbing areas are gated off. They have put up more gates in disparate places. Blocking even the most obscure entrances into the crags. They have been very thorough. I made it in though because I have a master key.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:11 pm

Post by **Lateralus** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:18 pm

Bruisebrother, I don't see where I claimed to be an expert in mineral rights, but it appears the oil/gas company wants to hide something. They likely perceive the climbers as some type of greenpeace organization and, for good reason, are scared of what type of exposure this will bring to bald rock /fixer road developments. Since you seem to be have knowledge in this area, can you explain how calling the companies bluff will negatively effect climbing in the Southern Region? I think I know enough about law to make a claim that the surface rights owner should be able to access his/her property by any reasonable means? Even if the roads were constructed by the OC, they are still part of the surface land. Could you give some documentation/links about how the surface right owner gives up access to his/her land when they don't own mineral rights.