rant mode on...
it isn't paritsan, no matter how you spin it. let me get this straight..you want to blame Bush for BOTH the starting of the problem AND the enforcement of the laws...geesh, that is really trying to lay blame. same shit, different day is what this is....doesn't matter the party in the BIG HOUSE...
legal immigrants are welcome..illegals are not. illegals cost taxpayers tons, and don't give an incentive to those who want to "do it right" to jump thru the hoops.
I say fine the sh** out of walmart of it is shown they knew...it is the liberals who want us to go soft on illegals to start with, but now they want to smack the hand of walmart for employing those same immigrants?...if you come to the US illegally, then you should NOT be given the same rights and status of legals and citizens....play by the rules if you want to reap the financial bounty of this country...
everyone on here who spends their weekends and weeknights foolishly pursuing a selfish activity such as climbing are the beneficiaries of the wealth of this great country, and have no room to complain....our ancestors did not have the luxury of such foolishness..you can thank a great work ethic and corporate america for your blessings.
rant off
how ironic
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ScrmnPeeler
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:46 pm
That's a totally reasonable 'gut reaction', but if you don't educate their kids, what are they going to do as teen-agers? I can tell you - deal drugs, street-walk, burgle, etc. Not only do you miss out on their potential to add value to our economy, you force them to support themselves through harmful activities. In the long run, the education pays for itself. (If nothing else, we spend a few thousand a year per kid for education and about $30k to $60k per year for each prisoner) As for medical care, how sick are you willing to have the guy who washes the dishes at your favorite restaurant? Drug-resistant TB? Staph infections? Illegal or not, we all benefit from having everyone being able to get basic medical care.
It's a philosophical difference. You are proposing a strict 'prohibitionist' position, and I am arguing for a 'harm minimization' approach.
It's a philosophical difference. You are proposing a strict 'prohibitionist' position, and I am arguing for a 'harm minimization' approach.
Bacon is meat candy.
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ScrmnPeeler
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:46 pm
Here we are in a situation where it sucks either way. Maybe we should do both things, police the borders and deport illegals AND crack down on those who employ them. Done. I don't want to pay for anyone else's lifestyle. Earn it. Legally.
I'm off to the gorge. Later.
I'm off to the gorge. Later.
So, you're a feminist...isn't that cute.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with the statement that undocumented immigrants are a drain on the tax base and don't contribute. their fair share. While I recognize that many undocumented workers are paid under the table and don't pay taxes (for that matter, so do many legal U.S. citizen workers, probably in about the same percentage as undocumented workers), the vast majority are on payroll of companies who deduct social security tax, as well as federal and state withholding from their paychecks. This money is never seen again by the undocumented worker. They aren't going to be eligible for social security benefits becuase they are undocumented, and almost 90% of them don't file tax returns to claim their refunds of the withholding tax. Based on the low wages that they often make, they would most likely be entitled to get back close to 100% of their withholding tax, plus child tax credits if they filed tax returns. So, I disagree that they don't contribute to the tax base and are just "free-loading". As an aside, the bulk of public school money is based on local property taxes. So, technically, children attending public schools whose parents live in apartments (and therefore don't pay property tax) contribute just as much to the funding of schools as undocumented workers (and perhaps less if the undocumented worker lives in a home where property taxes are required to be paid).
"You're name isn't Rio, but I don't care for sand."
nice twist jim....
why is it so difficult for people to follow the rules of the country? if I choose to live somewhere else, I would find out what their immigration laws where, and set about obeying them. This isn't a pick and choose economy....if they are working illegally and lose those fedaral and state taxes with held, so be it. There is a legal avenue for getting those refunds....get a green card, and fire away.
I hate cheaters.....
why is it so difficult for people to follow the rules of the country? if I choose to live somewhere else, I would find out what their immigration laws where, and set about obeying them. This isn't a pick and choose economy....if they are working illegally and lose those fedaral and state taxes with held, so be it. There is a legal avenue for getting those refunds....get a green card, and fire away.
I hate cheaters.....
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
Rant on...
The problem of illegal workers will never be solved by our government. The same companies that hire the illegal workers also fill the coffers of the politicians. They'll talk about spending a billion dollars in an attempt to tighten up the border, but that's all it is 'talk'. It won't actually solve any problems but it sounds good to the voting public. Just like the 'No child left behind' bullshit. It sounds great, but it not addressing the real problem.
The solution to the problem is to go after the businesses that hire them. Make them responsible for all manual labor done on their property, or on their behalf, and ENFORCE IT! (That's really the key word here.) If businesses think they will lose their shirt if they hire illegals, then they won't do it.
If people hear that there are no jobs across the border, then people will stop coming across the border. We won't need to build a higher fence. People don't move into an area that doesn't have jobs, they move away from them.
This will also have the benefit of forcing the illegals to become legals. Currently they have very little reason to do so, because there is plenty of work for them as illegals. But, if most of the illegal jobs dry up, then they have little choice but to do what ever they can to become legals.
If they are legal, then they will get benefits such as workers compensation if they get injured, and Social Security to retire on. We need to put them on the path of the American dream, not force them into permanent 3rd class citizenship. Lets give them some pride that they can pass onto their kids. Pride is what makes America. What do you think their kids think when they see Dad working himself to death and having nothing to show for it in the end. While watching Johnny's Dad across the street work half as hard and have everything to show for it! I'm assuming it makes a kid who has a pretty distorted view of America.
Rant off...
The problem of illegal workers will never be solved by our government. The same companies that hire the illegal workers also fill the coffers of the politicians. They'll talk about spending a billion dollars in an attempt to tighten up the border, but that's all it is 'talk'. It won't actually solve any problems but it sounds good to the voting public. Just like the 'No child left behind' bullshit. It sounds great, but it not addressing the real problem.
The solution to the problem is to go after the businesses that hire them. Make them responsible for all manual labor done on their property, or on their behalf, and ENFORCE IT! (That's really the key word here.) If businesses think they will lose their shirt if they hire illegals, then they won't do it.
If people hear that there are no jobs across the border, then people will stop coming across the border. We won't need to build a higher fence. People don't move into an area that doesn't have jobs, they move away from them.
This will also have the benefit of forcing the illegals to become legals. Currently they have very little reason to do so, because there is plenty of work for them as illegals. But, if most of the illegal jobs dry up, then they have little choice but to do what ever they can to become legals.
If they are legal, then they will get benefits such as workers compensation if they get injured, and Social Security to retire on. We need to put them on the path of the American dream, not force them into permanent 3rd class citizenship. Lets give them some pride that they can pass onto their kids. Pride is what makes America. What do you think their kids think when they see Dad working himself to death and having nothing to show for it in the end. While watching Johnny's Dad across the street work half as hard and have everything to show for it! I'm assuming it makes a kid who has a pretty distorted view of America.
Rant off...
Yasmeen wrote:
Hey Scaife-- why'd you capitalize Trad, but not sport? Are you trying to stir the shit pot or what?
Hey Scaife-- why'd you capitalize Trad, but not sport? Are you trying to stir the shit pot or what?
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ScrmnPeeler
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:46 pm
"Illegal Alien" is the proper term and accurately describes these individuals, let's agree on that. Stop using "undocumented worker", it sounds like you are trying to make them the "victim". Correct terminology is crucial in debate. I agree with Scaife, on this. These people are criminals, the companies that hire them are also criminals.
So, you're a feminist...isn't that cute.
man you all are hypocrites. you love the cheap prices at walmart. you love cheap prices at restaurants. you love the cheap prices of fruit and crops from out west. you all actually love illegal immigrants.
you also love the prices of clothes made at sweat shops. you love the prices of fruit from the banana republics down south. you love the cheap prices of oil and gas. you love imperialism as well.
america's prosperity has been built the same way that any other dominant cultures prosperity has been created. by the blood of others. nothing like a little genocide and slavery to get a country going.
i don't blame or think less of america because of it. if anything we might be the most self-aware civilization in history.
it is just funny to see people saying that those illegals are harming us. those illegals are keeping the prices down.
you also love the prices of clothes made at sweat shops. you love the prices of fruit from the banana republics down south. you love the cheap prices of oil and gas. you love imperialism as well.
america's prosperity has been built the same way that any other dominant cultures prosperity has been created. by the blood of others. nothing like a little genocide and slavery to get a country going.
i don't blame or think less of america because of it. if anything we might be the most self-aware civilization in history.
it is just funny to see people saying that those illegals are harming us. those illegals are keeping the prices down.
Last edited by merrick on Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Back from the Dead!
come on merrick..if it were so easily black and white..we have thousands, if not millions of legal citizens right here in our own country that we can bamboozle into working for min. wage...deport the illegals, and bleed from the inside...
give education opportunities to every legal resident of the US, so that they will not want the slutty jobs...poverty, stupidity, and laziness can't be eradicated...just shifted.
give education opportunities to every legal resident of the US, so that they will not want the slutty jobs...poverty, stupidity, and laziness can't be eradicated...just shifted.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.