Climbing Safety 101

Post by **Wes** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:17 pm

Checking isn't all it's cracked up to be without really paying attention. For example, I use a double bowline to tie in. But while on the road this summer and climbing with a bunch of different people, I would ask if my "8" looks good. Maybe 60% said it was fine. Another 20% looked confused, but still said things look good. And the other 20% said it didn't look right.

Wes

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:52 pm

Wes, that is pathetic. I hope you called them out on that.

I've been climbing with more and more people who use the double bowline to tie in. When I check them, I say "well I don't know if it's right. Is it right?" and they check it again. I need to learn that knot so I can check it properly. I may even start using it since I'm getting tired of trying to undo my welded 8 after falling a bunch.

One thing that I do and that I ask my partners to do is to verify the "off belay" request. When my climber asks to be taken off belay, I say "[name], do you want me to take you off belay?" and I wait for a confirmation. If I don't get a clear one, I will ask again or say "are you hooked in directly to the anchor?" I am horrified when I hear a fuzzy request to be taken off belay and watch the belayer casually take their climber off. Maybe it's my hangup, but this was the way I was taught and I think it's a crucial command to verify every single time.

Post by **captain static** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:52 pm

I know it is "old school" but I was taught a very simple system of commands based on syllable cadence. The two belay commands in this system are "on belay" and "belay off". A different ordering so as not to get confused. The way to remember this is the sentences, "I am on belay" & "Take the belay off". All commands are acknowledge with "Thank you". This system is explained in the "Wilderness Handbook" by Paul Petzoldt and this is the system taught by NOLS.

Post by **Wicked Tribe** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:54 pm

Belay properly with a GriGri! Don't do the lazy sporto "clasp-and-yank". I did this way back when I climbed with a few sport punks. After months of "belaying" this way I went to belay someone with an ATC and did the same.

What I mean by "clasp and yank" is this: You hold the body of the GriGri with your right hand, holding the cam down while your left hand is stylishly relaxed. When your climber needs rope you pull it through the device with your left hand. At no point in time is this ever a safe practice.

You should always belay with a GriGri as if it DOES NOT LOCK!

One other point (two part actually): Just because someone is a good climber doesn't necessarily mean they are a safe climber. And just because someone has survived for 10, 20 or 50 years as a climber does not necessarily mean they are safe either. Be especially suspicious of scars and a string of deceased partners.

Post by **Alan Evil** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:44 am

http://www.knoppaz.com/videos/videos/climbers.mpg

These people didn't double check. This video is real and awful.

Post by **jeffers_mz** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:02 pm

Knotting the ends of your rap rope and then tossing it down in a high wind will spoil your day, and possibly your night too. If it's windy, knot 'em and flake it into your pack instead.

A quick glance at a partner's tie in/harness buckle isn't going to tell you squat if you aren't familiar with that harness or knot. To get redundancy you have to follow the threads all the way through. If you're not comfortable looking at your partner's...midsection... that long, put your estate is in order before you go out.

Post by **lordjim_2001** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:11 pm

Being a Gumby and a n00b to boot I have to voice an opinion. I've always thought that tying your rap ropes together was a dumb idea. B/c of the possible high wind issues. I would think that tying each end into some big horkin' knot that couldn't pass through my belay device would be a better idea.

Just my $.02 on a slow friz-eaky friz-iday. Fiz.

Post by **tomdarch** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:38 pm

Sandy wrote:I've been climbing with more and more people who use the double bowline to tie in. When I chizzle them, I say "well I don't know if it's right. Is it right?" and they chizzle it again. I need to learn that knot so I can chizzle it properly. I may even stizzle using it since I'm getting tired of trizzle to undo ma welded 8 after falling a bunch.

I use the double-bowline with a re-threaded keeper (from Climbing or R&I), but I do have mixed feelings about using it. I weigh 195lbs., so I wonder what kind of whippers you are taking, Sandy! One problem with the bowline is that if you start the loops the wrong way or if you 'run the rabbit around the tree' in the wrong direction, then it doesn't really hold. (they are relative to each other, so if you do both backwards, then you have just mirror-imaged the knot, and it will be OK.) Tugging on the knot when you snug it up shoud tell you that you've goofed, but I wonder how easy it is to miss this. I also doubt that it can be reliably checked visually. Hmmmm....

Post by **Alan Evil** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:24 pm

"The stage hand staggers out the bar door, swings around the lamp post, and back into the bar." --Rags

That double-bowline is such an elegant knot.

The link I posted above ( http://www.knoppaz.com/videos/videos/climbers.mpg )probably won't play because the connection is too slow. You should right click on it and save it somewhere and then watch it. I actually think the two of them lived through the fall with "multiple fractures." Someone that speaks Spanish could tell us. I think their rope broke but, again, I don't speak Spanish.