belaying through both parts of your harness

[steep4me]

I am aware that about ten years ago Petzl came out with new recommendations for using the grigri safely and that now they state that it is safest to belay using the belay loop rather than putting the biner through both parts of your harness to avoid cross loading and snapping the biner in half. Of course, many of had been belaying for many years with the biner through both parts of our harness prior to the new guidelines coming out.

If you change to belaying using the belay loop, it alters the orientation of the grigri from horizontal to vertical and the break position from off to the side to down in front.

I have tried several times to get used to belaying using the belay loop, but it feels totally awkward. My concern is that I feel really confident in my belaying the way I have always done it because I have 20+ yrs of doing it the exact same way over and over. I have not had any issues with the biner cross loading. My concern is that if I try to force myself to do the new system that it will not be as safe due to it being awkward and not automatic in terms of knowing exactly where the grigri and rope are in space at all times without looking at it.

Who has changed their system to the belay loop and who has stayed with putting the biner through both parts of the harness? What is more dangerous?--possibility of cross loading the biner or trying to belay in a new awkward way?

How common is it for accidents to occur due to crossloading the biner?

I have definitely seen a lot of accidents due to people changing belay techniques or getting a new belay device.

The owner of my gym asked me to change the way I am doing it because Petzl states this is the recommended way. He feels it puts him in a bad legal position if he lets people belay off of their harness rather than the belay loop.

This is a serious question--no trolls please.

[Spikeddem]

The owner of my gym asked me to change the way I am doing it because Petzl states this is the recommended way. He feels it puts him in a bad legal position if he lets people belay off of their harness rather than the belay loop.

Sounds like you have your answer, assuming you want to keep climbing at this gym.

[Rx2Climb]

"Belay Loop". I wonder what that might be used for?

[Toy]

I still put my locker through both tie in points instead of the belay loop, but I use a magnetron w/a keeper. This eliminates the cross-loading potential.

[steep4me]

Nice

[DrRockso]

I still put my locker through both tie in points instead of the belay loop, but I use a magnetron w/a keeper. This eliminates the cross-loading potential.

It's not really cross loading that is the concern, it's the fact that you are tri-axially loading your carabiner.

[Toy]

Both tie ins collapse together when upward force is applied to the gri-gri. I've never had my device stick on the Biner or load sideways since I've been doing this. The force loads longitudinally every time.

[steep4me]

Thanks! I got a new locking biner with the keeper thing to prevent the gri gri from moving up and down the spine--even though I have never had an issue with cross loading. Spoke with a couple of climber/engineers who said that there is no risk using the tie in points rather than the belay loops, as the entire system has lots of give and the biner is extremely strong. A lot of people use the belay loop but still belay palm side up and with the gri gri horizontal, as they end up twisting the loop. My method doesn't involve that. Tried belaying today with palm down, off the belay loop etc.. It was ok for paying out slack and lowering, but totally sucked for taking in slack. It also made my wrist hurt, while my original way is more like the mechanics when you use an atc.

[milspecmark]

I can not seem to find the video, but the other main risk to putting the caribiner in the harness loops is that durring a fall, the gri gri lever gets caught in the loose belay loop and gets pulled open to the max as the gri gri gets pulled out tight. THis will cause climber to deck. There is a video (I think from petzl) demonstrating this malfunction. Hope that makes sense

[Toy]

This seems ridiculously improbable, but I'd be curious to see the video if you find it.