Graining Fork Nature Preserve

[aaronkupferer]

A couple of years ago... I talked openly in conversation regarding the issues surrounding the closure of Roadside, just like everyone else in the climbing community. I visited for the first time last Sunday since it's reopening (which I support, seeing it as a step in the right direction).
The following day I received an email. The manager, John Haight, told me I was not welcome back. After having to prod for an explanation, he finally said it was because he heard I was "openly critical and unsupportive." He failed to reply to my attempt to open a conversation.
I've never met the guy, but it seems if he doesn't like what you've said he will ban you from his property. Be warned, I guess..?

C'est la vie. And be careful out there!

Also, I want to go on the record as saying: I love everything about Torrent Falls!

[tbwilsonky]

I've met John once at Cold Cave near Morehead. Seemed like a nice enough fellow. Maybe this is just a misunderstanding?

Hopefully you can get it cleared up as you're probably strong enough to project Ro Shampo this season.

[caribe]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[krampus]

yet those jackholes who do not get passes and bring their dogs keep coming back.....

[milspecmark]

I have net John a couple times at Roadside. He is a very nice individual, who puts up with alot of crap. On this particular day, someone was in his face because he asked the guy with no permit and a dog to leave. My guess is that he deals with alot of disrespect and prob. just gets tired of it. I do my best to remind the people without permits that they could be prosecuted for trespassing. It really is in our best interest to follow John's wishes and help police the property for John if we want continued access.

[caribe]

Given this information:

Graining Fork Nature Preserve Donation (the minimum transaction fee is 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction)

If you contribute $0.x, your contribution costs them $0.x-0.30. At some point low contributions become insulting.
Put yourself in the owner's shoes; how would you feel? If you don't think you can leave at least $5.00, I guess my opinion is that you should just still consider the place closed. Torrent also has a contribution box. If you want to climb there and all you have is beer money, give up beer.

[tactless]

He got banned because he didn't "donate" enough money? Really? How do you know this? There was nothing in his original post that said that was the reason. But let's say it WAS the reason - since that makes for a more fun discussion.

1. If a donation is required, it's no longer a donation. That's called a fee.

donation - an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/donation
fee - a sum paid or charged for a privilege: - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fee?s=t

2. If the owner wants to charge $X, he should specify that amount - not ban people that go under that mysterious amount. How do you know the amount is $5 carbie? And what happens if he decides to raise the hidden bar next year and he wants, say, a $6 "donation." Then you would be banned too according to your post because your donation is now unacceptably low.

3. Fee climbing IS legal in KY - but it sure is a slippery slope to charge for climbing (after all, if you ban people for giving too little that is certainly a charge) and then try to call it a "donation." I'm not a lawyer, but I bet I could win that case.

Given this information:

Graining Fork Nature Preserve Donation (the minimum transaction fee is 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction)

If you contribute $0.x, your contribution costs them $0.x-0.30. At some point low contributions become insulting.
Put yourself in the owner's shoes; how would you feel? If you don't think you can leave at least $5.00, I guess my opinion is that you should just still consider the place closed. Torrent also has a contribution box. If you want to climb there and all you have is beer money, give up beer.

[caribe]

I am not saying he got banned for not donating. I don't know anything about the donation amount. I think people might be inclined to ask for a pass and skip the donation. I am just saying that we should put ourselves in the owner's shoes when we are asking for a pass.

He got banned because he didn't "donate" enough money? Really? How do you know this? There was nothing in his original post that said that was the reason. But let's say it WAS the reason - since that makes for a more fun discussion.

[caribe]

How do you know the amount is $5 caribe?

Because this is the minimum suggested donation amount on the site.

[caribe]

what happens if he decides to raise the hidden bar next year and he wants, say, $6

well at some point I would go much less frequently. Let's put my visitation frequency into perspective. The last time I was at Roadside was with a crew to clean shit up with the owner's permission shortly after closure.