MV anchor cleaning accident

[clif]

NO texting while on belay. and
DO NOT TWERK directly through the anchors.

[lena_chita]

Can we at least have a discussion on how we can make climbing safer for everyone and reduce the individual responsibility for ones own self? It's been at least three months since the last convo like this

Reducing individual responsibility is pretty easy. My daughter has mastered it. (Holding a printout that describes in detail what she needed to do for now-late-or-missing assignment) but MOM, you didn't tell me that I had to actually DO IT!

[lena_chita]

And now in all seriousness, wishing everyone involved a speedy recovery.

it is pretty sad that the accidents are now occurring with such regularitiy, and are similar-enough that I thought josephine was posting about one of the recent accidents, and only later realized that this was an old thread that got resurrected

[Crankmas]

My thanks as well to all involved in all rescues, is there a part of MVP that is designated for helicopter assisted transport? Might be something to consider in the other areas, heady stuff, climb safe and watch / check your buddy as he/ she does the same

[Shannon]

Frethawk, I don’t think your interest in what happened and request to discuss is unreasonable at all. Sorry if it may have come across as a hush-hush topic or that you may have offended. Especially, since you say the events play over and over in your head…that must have been hard to be that close to the accident and not have some closure. No doubt others could/would benefit from a discussion regarding accidents of this type (or any type), i.e., things to do different, look out for, etc. I, for one, am sympathetic to your interest especially since you also say you are not much of a climber, suggesting you are relatively new or less experienced and perhaps interested in learning.

I think Rick was correctly suggesting that accident victims’ privacy need to be respected and speculation in the absence of fact to be avoided so as to not unfairly, however innocent or well-intended, malign anyone.

However, I don’t think this forum or any forum is out of bound for a sobering, thoughtful discussion about any and all climbing accidents, if done without, intentionally or unintentionally, indicting or criticizing anyone.

As Rick has stated (if I understand correctly), this particular accident was the direct result of the climber rappelling off the short end of their rope while descending from the anchors of a sport route, removing draws (cleaning) as they descended. The short end obviously was not on the ground and there was no stopper knot in the end of the rope or a knot tied bringing both ends together. The climber had cleaned, the draws off the anchors and the last bolt under the anchors, then rapped off one end of their rope and fell the remaining distance.

There was, what I thought a good discussion on facebook by some experienced climbers who I respect, including Rick, about this accident (not the particular person but some of the facts of the accident) and there was a lot of good comments and points raised. While I read the comments I thought about your request.

I will not attempt to answer any, only highlight some of the issues raised…
1. What, if any is/are the climbing partner(s)/belayer’s duty/involvement to assist the rappelling climber? Eyes on the ground? None?
2. What should/can experienced climbers offer less experienced climbers in their vicinity? Keep an eye out for them?
3. Should lowering be encouraged as opposed to rappelling off routes?
4. Does knowing there are competent rescue crews available in the area reduce the “sense” of risk in a climber’s minds?

I do not have answers for these questions or presume to say what others should do. I have my preferences, for example, I prefer to be lowered as opposed to rappel. I admit I make mistakes. I know that I take risks, sometimes unnecessary. I personally subscribe to what I call the John Bronaugh rule (from whom I borrowed the following)…100% personal responsibility for all of my climbing decisions, actions and risks, rely on no one for anything, be able to extricate myself in all situations as if I climbed alone. And yet, I try to keep an eye out for ALL other climbers in my vicinity, offering “fireman catches” or telling them if their rope is on the ground to climbers rappelling, watch others thread their gri gri, etc. In other words, expect nothing (from others), offer everything.

Ok, I will shut up and get out of the way and hope others will jump in and add their thoughts.

[dustonian]

Well put Shannon!

[JeffCastro]

"Expect nothing (from others), offer everything."

Worth repeating.

[krampus]

very well said Shannon, and rick as well. regardless of any BS I may spew, your contributions have been immeasurable.

[WDW4]

I will not attempt to answer any, only highlight some of the issues raised…
1. What, if any is/are the climbing partner(s)/belayer’s duty/involvement to assist the rappelling climber? Eyes on the ground? None?
2. What should/can experienced climbers offer less experienced climbers in their vicinity? Keep an eye out for them?
3. Should lowering be encouraged as opposed to rappelling off routes?
4. Does knowing there are competent rescue crews available in the area reduce the “sense” of risk in a climber’s minds?

I do not have answers for these questions or presume to say what others should do. I have my preferences, for example, I prefer to be lowered as opposed to rappel. I admit I make mistakes. I know that I take risks, sometimes unnecessary. I personally subscribe to what I call the John Bronaugh rule (from whom I borrowed the following)…100% personal responsibility for all of my climbing decisions, actions and risks, rely on no one for anything, be able to extricate myself in all situations as if I climbed alone. And yet, I try to keep an eye out for ALL other climbers in my vicinity, offering “fireman catches” or telling them if their rope is on the ground to climbers rappelling, watch others thread their gri gri, etc. In other words, expect nothing (from others), offer everything.

Well said. I think risk management can be done best when the belayer and climber understand themselves to be both actively participating in the climbing event -from before the first climber leaves the ground, until both are back on it safely.

Without putting blame on anyone in this or similar accidents (because I don't know them or the details of the situation), in situations where I as belayer had the opportunity to check my partner's harness, rope, etc and failed to do so, any accident resulting from improper rigging or knots in those elements means I failed as much as the climber. Same goes for knowledge - if my buddy falls because I didn't teach him how to do "X" skill well, I failed as much as he did. Same goes for others doing unsafe stuff nearby - if I see an unknown child or adult about to touch a live wire, and I don't tell them clearly to stop (and how to be safe), "they should have known better" is completely irrelevant to the fact that my silence produced their injury as much as their ignorance or carelessness did.

Or we can go through life expecting others to reap all the consequences of their mistakes. That path has benefits to, but it makes us all jerks.

[Frethawk]

Thanks Shannon for that great post, I really like the John Bronaugh rule.

I was going to comment on some of the 4 issues listed in context of this accident but then realized I'd once again be discussing that afternoon's events in detail. I guess the only thing I'll say is that even though I was actively belaying another climber at the time, even though I was a good 30 ft left of the accident with a partially obstructed view, and even though the day had been busy so I got used to the sight and sound of lots of climbers from other groups milling about doing their own thing, I STILL think I should've noticed that the fallen climber didn't have is ends down.