Wes, I don't want to kill any ones dog. I just want to climb. When people do jackass things and then are unapologetic, what am I supposed to do? Who is being harmed here? The dog or me.
It seems that people think that the rules don't apply to them.
No Tresspassing.
All dogs on leashes.
Quiet time is from 11-8.
People don't care about any one else. They only want to get their own selfish ways. If that means imposing upon or harming another person, then so be it.i.e. if my dog bit you its your fault. You were sketchy/smelled funny/were agressive with it/who knows what. So let me say this in no uncertain terms.
Keep your agressive dogs on a leash
Don't be in denial,"Well, she's never done that before!"
When you know goddamn well, she has growled,snapped at and bitten at people before.
Or I will take the situation in hand
About your dog.
I've only been unhappy with dogs at the crag once. Two dogs, belonging to two climbing parties started playing 40-50 ft from where my partner and I were climbing. No problem. I started climbing. The couple on the climb next to us wanted to tie up their dog but wouldn't because the other dog was clearly more dominant - not aggressive, but playful and dominant. By the time I hit the third bolt, the dogs were playing right around my belayer - around her legs, over our rope, etc. It was still what most people would call playful, but too close to my belayer for comfort, and the owners next to us couldn't do much about it. I clipped in and sat on the rope (on a 5.7 sport climb, no less!) and called to the other owners 75 feet up the crag to leash their dog. They responded that the dogs were just playing. By that time, in less than 30 seconds, things had gone from what I'd call play (with both dogs equally involved) to aggression (the smaller dog had her tail between her legs, both had teeth bared and the owners had to physically separate the dogs).
The problem with saying leave aggressive dogs at home is where does curious and playful end and aggression begin. When you throw other people and other dogs into the mix, your dog's behaviour may become more aggressive. Things can go from play to aggression real fast. And what seems playful to one person may seem threatening to another.
The problem with saying leave aggressive dogs at home is where does curious and playful end and aggression begin. When you throw other people and other dogs into the mix, your dog's behaviour may become more aggressive. Things can go from play to aggression real fast. And what seems playful to one person may seem threatening to another.
Do what you can to avoid a potentially dangerous situation or walk into it with your eyes open because it's a cruel and treacherous world out there. Life's tough all over and shit happens so take your licks like a man. You can either deal with it and keep on moving or cry like a little bitch, the choice is yours.J.H. wrote: Artsay, So tell me what I'm supposed to do? Irresponsible people take their sketchy/sketched out, dogs to the crag and turn them loose on the general population. They are acting irresponsibly. So again, what am I supposed to do?
I don't bring my dogs to the crag anymore because Denali's VERY large. If he bit you you could try what you want but I seriously doubt you could take him.
Since we are ranting and raving about dogs, I have a story:
I had an ex g/f who had a half dalmation/half blue heeler and a full dalmation. The full dal was crazier than hell and just as unpredictable. It bit (i.e., broke skin, brought blood) a kid in the gym once then later bit a guy at the crag. Both the dogs would walk under your belay, play under your feet and be a general all around nuisance. You know what she did about it. NOTHING. Wouldn't tether them up, wouldn't leave them at home, then had the nerve to defend both their behavior and hers. Needless to say, I saw to it she never climbed with us again.
Mj
I had an ex g/f who had a half dalmation/half blue heeler and a full dalmation. The full dal was crazier than hell and just as unpredictable. It bit (i.e., broke skin, brought blood) a kid in the gym once then later bit a guy at the crag. Both the dogs would walk under your belay, play under your feet and be a general all around nuisance. You know what she did about it. NOTHING. Wouldn't tether them up, wouldn't leave them at home, then had the nerve to defend both their behavior and hers. Needless to say, I saw to it she never climbed with us again.
Mj
...quitting drinking is kinda like washing your hands after you take a crap...why start now?
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the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
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I try to Lurk and not post, but I must...
Everyone knows that dogs at the cliff have a potential to be a nuisance. The ones that lay down and don't bother anyone are tolerated. Instead of the dog owners being apologists and being defensive about their pets, and anthropomorphizing human qualities about their pets and projecting their own feelings on to their pets, just as a rule, keep the dogs on a leash or leave them at home. Dogs are not allowed on FS land off a leash. I think this is a good standard practice for any climbing area or crowded public area. It really is the owners responsibility.
This is just my opinion.
JH, I really am not a jack ass, but thanks for asking my wife if I was. I think you are an immature dick head and if you would grow up a bit and stop pouting, people might take you more seriously. You have a good point but express it poorly.
Hugh
Everyone knows that dogs at the cliff have a potential to be a nuisance. The ones that lay down and don't bother anyone are tolerated. Instead of the dog owners being apologists and being defensive about their pets, and anthropomorphizing human qualities about their pets and projecting their own feelings on to their pets, just as a rule, keep the dogs on a leash or leave them at home. Dogs are not allowed on FS land off a leash. I think this is a good standard practice for any climbing area or crowded public area. It really is the owners responsibility.
This is just my opinion.
JH, I really am not a jack ass, but thanks for asking my wife if I was. I think you are an immature dick head and if you would grow up a bit and stop pouting, people might take you more seriously. You have a good point but express it poorly.
Hugh
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
Normie
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Guest
J.H. stay away from my dog, too. She is small and gentle, actually rather timid with new people and has never bitten out of fear or aggression. She does sometimes nip my ankles when we are running loose and playing, though, but she is "herding" me. I don't trust her not to bite you because for whatever reason, dogs react negatively to you. I've seen this myself. I am afraid I have to take the same stance as Artsay here, even though you are my friend, and ask you to never come near me or my daughter when we have our dog with us. I will physically prevent this if I have to.
FYI my dog is always on a leash except in our home and backyard, but only because I am very protective of her and don't want her to run off if something scares her. I don't mind well behaved dogs being off leash. I am wary if I don't know them, as anyone should be. More often than not, dogs who are off leash are not a nuisance or a danger (except in the cases when their owners are complete idiots). Something you need to realize is that when a dog IS on a leash, they are more protective of their immediate territory than they would be if they were not. You should give them a wide berth if you don't want to be bitten. Period. Don't like it? Tough. You can't separate your climbing experience from the presence of dogs unless you buy your own crag and get to make the rules.
I have found that some other dogs are often more comfortable if one of them is on a leash and one (the dominent one) is off leash, and I think it's sometimes a good idea to introduce dogs in this way. Perhaps you should have been on a leash and the dog who nipped you should have been off? Or perhaps you should accept the fact that there are dogs around and go out of your way to avoid them unless you know they like you.
As to your original post, I asked you to remove the threats of harm against people. You have not done this and you are getting a taste of the consequences in the form of how negatively people are reacting to your post. You have threatened to not only hurt the owners of dogs who may bite you, but also to kill them (as well as the dog). I am no lawyer, but I'm thinking that making threats of bodily harm to PEOPLE like this isn't going to help your case if you end up being sued over a dog bite incident and your resulting behaviour. I also think your statement that you will protect yourself would be better received if you would fucking temper yourself and be rational. Like Artsay, I feel personally threatened by your post and will act accordingly to keep you away from my dog, even though she is far from threatening or aggressive. Stay the fuck away.
FYI my dog is always on a leash except in our home and backyard, but only because I am very protective of her and don't want her to run off if something scares her. I don't mind well behaved dogs being off leash. I am wary if I don't know them, as anyone should be. More often than not, dogs who are off leash are not a nuisance or a danger (except in the cases when their owners are complete idiots). Something you need to realize is that when a dog IS on a leash, they are more protective of their immediate territory than they would be if they were not. You should give them a wide berth if you don't want to be bitten. Period. Don't like it? Tough. You can't separate your climbing experience from the presence of dogs unless you buy your own crag and get to make the rules.
I have found that some other dogs are often more comfortable if one of them is on a leash and one (the dominent one) is off leash, and I think it's sometimes a good idea to introduce dogs in this way. Perhaps you should have been on a leash and the dog who nipped you should have been off? Or perhaps you should accept the fact that there are dogs around and go out of your way to avoid them unless you know they like you.
As to your original post, I asked you to remove the threats of harm against people. You have not done this and you are getting a taste of the consequences in the form of how negatively people are reacting to your post. You have threatened to not only hurt the owners of dogs who may bite you, but also to kill them (as well as the dog). I am no lawyer, but I'm thinking that making threats of bodily harm to PEOPLE like this isn't going to help your case if you end up being sued over a dog bite incident and your resulting behaviour. I also think your statement that you will protect yourself would be better received if you would fucking temper yourself and be rational. Like Artsay, I feel personally threatened by your post and will act accordingly to keep you away from my dog, even though she is far from threatening or aggressive. Stay the fuck away.
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Guest
WTF! I never said you were a jackass. I said people had told me that about you. I don't know you. You don't know me. Yet you call me an immature dick head.the lurkist wrote:I try to Lurk and not post, but I must...
Everyone knows that dogs at the cliff have a potential to be a nuisance. The ones that lay down and don't bother anyone are tolerated. Instead of the dog owners being apologists and being defensive about their pets, and anthropomorphizing human qualities about their pets and projecting their own feelings on to their pets, just as a rule, keep the dogs on a leash or leave them at home. Dogs are not allowed on FS land off a leash. I think this is a good standard practice for any climbing area or crowded public area. It really is the owners responsibility.
This is just my opinion.
JH, I really am not a jack ass, but thanks for asking my wife if I was. I think you are an immature dick head and if you would grow up a bit and stop pouting, people might take you more seriously. You have a good point but express it poorly.
Hugh
I'm not pouting. I'm saying. Tell me how I can express myself more clearly.
I think there are a lot of unnecessary posts on this thread. If your dog is on a leash at all times/small and not aggressive/has been discussed before about their behavior, you should stop using this post as an excuse to yell at JH (I am not defending JH in any way). True, his post was a little out of hand, but you all are just fueling the fire by getting really aggressive in return. Simply read his post, say to yourself, “Wow, I think I should stay away from this guy/I’ll keep my dog on a leash” and leave it at that. I think we should learn to channel our aggression into climbing, sending our projects, and really learn to GUSH (I am sorry, I had to say that!!)
Peace
Peace