Walls for a beginner / intermediate team?

[ynp1]

^^^+1^^^
Is this a first for me? I think so...

I am just glad he is not closing the climb because it is unsafe! Which it is not.

[Josh_Allgeier]

Not to get off subject, but when did Roadside and Torrent open back up to the public?

[KD]

Roadside opened on April 1st

[slaps]

Wait what? Where is the official announcement?

[Rotarypwr345704]

You don't need an official announcement! The owners don't like to make public their intentions. They told a few of us that we could start going back up there but asked us to not put up signs saying that it was back open. They also asked if I would go up there and finish bolting all those lines on the far right side of the wall. Maybe I'll see you up there!

Oh, and don't forget to bring your dog!

[Bum]

You don't need an official announcement! The owners don't like to make public their intentions. They told a few of us that we could start going back up there but asked us to not put up signs saying that it was back open. They also asked if I would go up there and finish bolting all those lines on the far right side of the wall. Maybe I'll see you up there!

Oh, and don't forget to bring your dog!

The new hammock belay spots are great!

[Artsay]

Those who can climb difficult overhanging routes have the luxury of falling into thin air. Those of us who climb moderates on vertical and slab routes often encounter ledges that cannot be avoided in a lead fall, regardless of bolt locations.

There are a ton of hard, slab or vertical lines with bad fall potential. Avoiding injury on these types of routes relies on the experience from both belayer and climber. IMO, the more experienced the athlete the more experienced with falling safely they have had to become. Be it rock climbing, gymnastics, motorcross, whatever....

Some may see overly bolting easy routes as actually stripping away a beginner's opportunity to calculate risk taking and learn how to fall safely.

[potts]

Those who can climb difficult overhanging routes have the luxury of falling into thin air. Those of us who climb moderates on vertical and slab routes often encounter ledges that cannot be avoided in a lead fall, regardless of bolt locations.

...Be it rock climbing, gymnastics, motorcross, whatever....

Some may see overly bolting easy routes as actually stripping away a beginner's opportunity to calculate risk taking and learn how to fall safely.

Bars and beams are set lower for young gymnastic beginners, motorcross bikes are smaller for young beginners, and it might be good to space bolts closer on some easier routes to help young beginning climbers learn to lead without exposing them to unnecessary risk.

[SpikySkaKid]

I haven't been climbing very long and I still consider myself an intermediate, but in my opinion if anything looks dangerous or looks above your ability to climb safely, just don't do it. Sport climbing is awesome because there are bolts, but again, this is Rock Climbing, there is always an element of danger and it would be boring if there wasn't. Top roping is definitely safer, but when you start leading outside, there is more risk and you need to know your ability before climbing.

[Ascentionist]

Ah, the age old argument of "should we cater to gumbies or let natural selection take its course?"

I swing back and forth on this one. On one hand I say bolt what you want and let God sort 'em out. But from the perspective of someone that has actually placed bolts, I do feel some responsibility for the quality and safety of what I leave behind. That's one reason I just stopped bolting and placing anchors. I didn't want to feel responsible when someone died from a bolt failure. But...I believe we are each ultimately responsible for our own safety and can hold no one else to blame if we're injured while climbing.

My gut tells me that since there are going to be lots of new climbers bumbling around in the woods because the RRG area is a destination then there is some responsibility on the part of the climbing community to ensure there are opportunities for all types of users. That's what makes a good community. Those that don't care about their fellow climbers' well-being are poor members of the community, but also probably fewer in number than their outspoken ranting would demonstrate.

So if you are developing "girlfriend" routes you should take into consideration the relative perception and reality of safety in the placement and quality of the bolts. But I would even counter that and say don't bother developing "girlfriend" routes. If you can't take the time to thoughtfully develop a wall with routes across the range of difficulty then you really have no right trying to get laid on your route development skills alone.