Sandbag or Fluff:

[climb2core]

To Wheatley's defense, he has no understanding of grading as his mutant arms by pass cruxes that he never knew existed.

[One-Fall]

I always wonder when a climb feels hard for me at a given grade, is it a sandbag or is it just pointing out more deficits in my technique.

[Willy]

touche

[dustonian]

I always wonder when a climb feels hard for me at a given grade, is it a sandbag or is it just pointing out more deficits in my technique.

+1111111

Lee is the man. Stop whining and climb, it's just a number for fook's sake, not a measure of your manhood.

[climb2core]

I was just bored Dustonian. Quick to get your panties in a knot!

[512OW]

I always wonder when a climb feels hard for me at a given grade, is it a sandbag or is it just pointing out more deficits in my technique.

Yep. I can't recall very many sandbags at the Red, of any grade or type. Actually, I'm not sure I can recall any. Maybe "The Specimen", but only barely if at all. There are far more soft, ego padding routes, particularly if Muir Valley is included.

[dustonian]

...new climbs coming out in the hard 11 range are more likely that they should fall in the easy 12 range. Sandbagging seems to be hitting new levels...

Your presumptuous tone and attempt to call out individual developers tends to knot panties into a nice sloppy double-bowline.

[dustonian]

There are far more soft, ego padding routes...

Yep.... and now some people think more accurately graded routes are somehow "sandbagged." Perhaps you are looking at it backwards folks?

[Brentucky]

Uh-oh, i see some of my route comments may have aided in starting something. I only try to do honest relative grading, and we all know grades can be personal anyway (height, finger size, strengths, etc.). When i comment on a route it is usually because it stood out to me in some big way compared to others. It may be that i found it to be really awesome or it may be that i thought the grade was drastically off and i'm trying to set the 5.13 climbers who are smacking grades on 5.11's straight. That way the 5.11 climbers can get smacked around on it if they choose or they can go climb real 5.11's. That's usually about it. Like a lot of people, i just about always think i am right, and that is why ray's consensus voting and route comments on this website totally rocks!

[Brentucky]

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2559
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2415
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2386
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2498
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2540

The one that has the most votes, scarlet scorchdropper, has the same consensus grade as the proposed grade. The rest of the climbs only have a few votes each. Do you really believe there is intentional sandbagging going on?

Did you notice that the weakest person so far to spray has sent multiple 12c's in the red? Maybe the strong egos of 5.13 climbers not wanting to upgrade weeny 5.11's (and honestly not knowing the difference) keeps them "down-voting." Just sayin...