One-Fall wrote:Sporty does not mean dangerous in my book. Run outs to the chains on overhung terrain is one way to make a route safe and sporty. Run outs up high can be exhilarating. Run outs down low just mean we are going to have to end our climbing day early bc a newbie couldn't calculate the risk.
I understand that I'm in the minority, but I feel if it is a sport route, we need to play to the lowest common denominator because "they" are going to get on the route and its a bummer to see someone get hurt.
I tend to agree with this statement. Andrews route Climactic Crush at the CF comes to mind. (Bad ass climb by the way). There is a 14-15 foot run from the last bolt to the anchors on a climb that is barely overhanging (if at all). I realize that the climbing is easy, there is almost zero pump due to all of the great stances, etc. etc. But man, if one of those dinner plates broke while clipping you would be in for a 40 foot ride. Probably not a pleasant fall either. While I enjoyed the run out, I am not sure an 11a climber pumped out of their mind would.
I will climb almost any route and am excited to see all the new routes going up at the red! But what is your reason for bolting? For yourself? the masses? the internet glory? That should give you your answer.
One-Fall wrote:Sporty does not mean dangerous in my book. Run outs to the chains on overhung terrain is one way to make a route safe and sporty. Run outs up high can be exhilarating. Run outs down low just mean we are going to have to end our climbing day early bc a newbie couldn't calculate the risk.
I understand that I'm in the minority, but I feel if it is a sport route, we need to play to the lowest common denominator because "they" are going to get on the route and its a bummer to see someone get hurt.
I tend to agree with this statement. Andrews route Climactic Crush at the CF comes to mind. (Bad ass climb by the way). There is a 14-15 foot run from the last bolt to the anchors on a climb that is barely overhanging (if at all). I realize that the climbing is easy, there is almost zero pump due to all of the great stances, etc. etc. But man, if one of those dinner plates broke while clipping you would be in for a 40 foot ride. Probably not a pleasant fall either. While I enjoyed the run out, I am not sure an 11a climber pumped out of their mind would.
I will climb almost any route and am excited to see all the new routes going up at the red! But what is your reason for bolting? For yourself? the masses? the internet glory? That should give you your answer.
I bolted that runout with the sole intention of internet glory... Did I win? Honestly I knew the climbing was easy and put in a bolt. I didn't realize the runout was that big until I climbed it, and thought it was a little long. Next time you bolt it.
dustonian wrote:I don't think the fall from up there would be that bad.
Just kind of bad? I certainly would not want to take that fall. How would you as a developer feel, if someone fell and was injured due to a bad bolt placement with respect to a ledge or an unnecessary runout? I am trying to get back to pigsteaks original question.
Disclaimer: I have no problems with the bolting of this route. Just a random example.
it is a game of decisions no doubt..every single sport route could be totally dumbed down with bolts every 2-3 feet...anyone want that?
as we start spreading out the bolt placements, we primarily are taking our own view of risk/ability/safety into consideration. personally when I bolt the line my primary question to myself is: how will a climber who is totally confident/competent and comfortable at this grade feel about the line. I do not bolt a 12a with an aspiring 11b climber in mind. if you are climbing one of my routes at your limit, dont expect a security blanket every 3 feet just because you are sketched. if the grade is within your comfort range, expect to be pleased with the balance of the entire experience.
pigsteak wrote:it is a game of decisions no doubt..every single sport route could be totally dumbed down with bolts every 2-3 feet...anyone want that?
as we start spreading out the bolt placements, we primarily are taking our own view of risk/ability/safety into consideration. personally when I bolt the line my primary question to myself is: how will a climber who is totally confident/competent and comfortable at this grade feel about the line. I do not bolt a 12a with an aspiring 11b climber in mind. if you are climbing one of my routes at your limit, dont expect a security blanket every 3 feet just because you are sketched. if the grade is within your comfort range, expect to be pleased with the balance of the entire experience.
To the person who hacked Kipp's account and started making sincere and thoughtful posts, well said.
pigsteak wrote:it is a game of decisions no doubt..every single sport route could be totally dumbed down with bolts every 2-3 feet...anyone want that?
as we start spreading out the bolt placements, we primarily are taking our own view of risk/ability/safety into consideration. personally when I bolt the line my primary question to myself is: how will a climber who is totally confident/competent and comfortable at this grade feel about the line. I do not bolt a 12a with an aspiring 11b climber in mind. if you are climbing one of my routes at your limit, dont expect a security blanket every 3 feet just because you are sketched. if the grade is within your comfort range, expect to be pleased with the balance of the entire experience.
+1.
I don't think it could have been said any better.
