Fixed Gear

[tbwilsonky]

once an ethic. always an ethic.

[MYDADPULLEDOUT]

What about the fixed perma draws (perma not project). If those have to come down too, you guys should of stripped the madness cave while you faggots were at it. And hell there are ALUMINUM project draws littering the cave, god damn ALUMINUM draws. Sorry I forgot that you turds don't ever actually climb; all you do is strip draws and talk about dick touching.

[tbwilsonky]

^^^^ go get em, tiger.

[crazyhair]

So I don't climb anything hard enough to have fixed gear on it anyways (go ahead and laugh) but if the general consensus is that at the very least aluminum should be yanked I have an idea. I know that people disagree with whether or not we should even have steel perma's and what routes/bolts they should be on- but can we please ignore that argument for a minute and try to solve the serious problem at hand: aluminum mank that can kill people?

From what I can tell- there will always be people who want to leave their draws on their project for a few days and that sort of makes sense.
There will also always be people that leave draws on routes and never come back for them
And there will always be people that don't inspect/take down mank. Now maybe I'm alone here- but I would never want to be responsible for somebody dying/getting seriously injured the day after I climbed a route and left up a suspicious draw because I thought it would last a while longer.

So- here's my idea:

If you're "projecting" a route and you want to leave your draws up for a few days- put a green tag on the first draw and write the date- you have x days (5/10?) to leave them up (knowing full well that other people can and will climb on them) and if they're still up after that, they're fair game to take down.

If you come across a climb that has aluminum draws- take them down (with the exception of private land). Even if they're not bad yet, just take them down. Then turn them into the Weber's or Miguel's so the owner can claim them- if they aren't claimed by the end of the season then maybe they could be auctioned off to support Muir Valley/PMRP/TeamSuck or given to bolters or something.

Signs can be put up at the parking areas to explain the new "ethic" or at Miguel's/Lago Linda's/LOTA/etc.

Maybe this is an awful idea, I don't know- but just thought I'd bring it up. I've seen some scary mank and I don't even climb hard and I dread the day when somebody has an accident that I could have had a hand in preventing.

[clif]

that post has the suspicious odor of emotion, concern and logic that can only be one thing.- a girl? proceed with caution

[Andrew]

Just hang them from the anchors or first bolt. the tag idea is a good one, but it will take some serious "education" for that to become the standard.

[tbwilsonky]

totems that imply safety are dangerous imho. 'green tags' included. there really isn't a good solution to this except for hanging your own gear.

[jordancolburn]

totems that imply safety are dangerous imho. 'green tags' included. there really isn't a good solution to this except for hanging your own gear.

It doesn't have to be a green tag to imply safety, I think the idea is to have a date just so that people won't take down draws that were just put up two days ago. Maybe phone number of owner too?

[MYDADPULLEDOUT]

So while you turds continue to create some plan as elaborate as the nazis cover story for the halocaust, I been thinking. If the climbing community became a group of semi-proactive group I people, and people would just check the draws before they climb on them, then people could change/remove sharp project draws. Simple as hell bitches.

[jordancolburn]

Again, if you think everyone is checking every draw every time you are delusional (even very experienced climbers might just clip a dangerous perma quickly in the middle of a route without thinking about it). If you are bothering to leave a bunch of draws because your project is so important, you can probably bother to leave a simple tag with the date you left them and your number, not a hard concept. Think of it more as protecting your project draws and making sure they get back to you than anything else. The way I see it there are really 4 positions you could have on this issue:

1. "Permas on Everything! Bolt the cracks and put permas on them too!" (Cost/Maintenance Time means this will never work outside of very specific cases like muir, and even they're having some issues with cost because everyone wants the convenience, but nobody wants to pay).

2. "Brah, just let me leave my project draws up for like 2 more seasons, I swear I'm sending twinkie in 2014" (When people expect to leave draws up for an undisclosed amount of time it leads to dangerous aluminum mank and people being angry when their project draws go missing due to someone removing them for saftey reasons or otherwise).

3. Limited use of project draws (reasonable, adding a tag with the date and some basic contact info insures you can get your gear back, and lets people know if it's been abandoned or not)

4. "No fixed gear ever" (would solve the problem, but people will pretty much always leave gear anyways then get mad when it goes missing)