A new Sith Lord?

[kafish2]

Interesting question Tommy, and a pretty good response by C2C. That being said, I think modern sport climbing (and in many ways big walling if you look at some of the more intense 5.14 multipitching going on in europe or Tommy Caldwell's super project) has moved away from the pursuit of the path of least resistance. No longer is climbing just about getting to the top of things in the easiest way possible. Most sport climbers are in the pursuit of the path of maximum resistance without falling. Along are also mixed goals of creative movement, fun, etc... which is why I feel so many people are into projecting at their limit and not as into onsight, high mileage, climbing well below their ability.

I am not putting a value judgement on either attitude, but recognizing that that for many climbers the main objective is to find a challenge near or above their limit and try to meet that challenge. I am also recognizing that this is becoming increasingly common (link-ups to create new challenges on a given wall, sit starts to routes such as in the ali-baba cave, moving bolts to force harder moves) and such the path of least resistance is not the only standard in route climbing/development.

The value in a sit start to a route, is in the eye of the beholder, so do it if it adds joy to your day. You will be in good company, just ask Chris Sharma, and Dani Andrada for example. I have also heard that Jimmy Webb did sit starts to most of the darkside.

[kafish2]

Oh yeah... sick job Adam. But I will be sad next time I am at the darkside and do not have you to bust my chops about my tank tops, questionable sexuality, and being a general weakling.

[der uber]

bust my chops about my tank tops, questionable sexuality, and being a general weakling.

Hesters crew doesn't judge you and your questionable sexuality

[kafish2]

Hester's crew only engages in such enormous amounts of positive reinforcement it could only be considered ball washing.

[der uber]

Underhanded ballwashing at best.

[Rollo]

I beg to differ on the point of sit starts costing nothing. I believe in the interest of safety all routes would require a bolt midway between the ground and what is currently the first bolt.
You may say "but the first bolt hasn't got any further off the ground!?!". Yes, but you've just added 2 or 3 moves to that rig!!! Climbers that used to be strong to the first bolt may be caught unaware of the new increased difficulty of every single climb at the red. Flatback dismounts will be widespread. Stretchers will have to be put at all approach trails to deal with low-fall injuries.
Not to mention cases of PSSD (Post Send Stress Disorder) going up by a margin of 70 to 80 percent because climbers cannot repeat their once proud sends with the added SDS difficulty.
By my estimate the cost of the psychologist visits plus the gear and all the time spent putting it in is around six million dollars. We simply don't have the means for SDS.
Nice hijack btw.

[tbwilsonky]

it's not a hijack if it's related. contrivance, difficulty, climbing; seems like a good place to ask about sit starts.

[kafish2]

I don't buy your pssd theory. In fact I think that the sit starts will increase morale, instead of having to get on a whole new climb to earn points and a bigger grade, now they can keep their beta of their old PJ, add a few moves, and kaboom new points for the ego.

[tbwilsonky]

I don't buy your pssd theory. In fact I think that the sit starts will increase morale, instead of having to get on a whole new climb to earn points and a bigger grade, now they can keep their beta of their old PJ, add a few moves, and kaboom new points for the ego.

this is what i was thinking plus what if the best moves on the route are under 7 feet (or 8 since everyone uses cheater stones)?

[Rotarypwr345704]

Rollo shut the fuck up. Everyone is carrying a stick nowadays anyway. So your point sucks. Oh no! Two or three moves added to a first bolt thats already clipped?!? How the fuck could anyone survive?????????????? And for anyone who doesn't stick and can't add TWO moves to the beginning of what they're climbing doesn't deserve to be on that route. And if they still end up hurting themselves, well that's just Darwin at work isn't it?