First 5.14 trad in the Red

[caribe]

Because this *should* be a celebration of Andrews send.

Yes.

[der uber]

Wait a minute, was he belayed with a SUM? Discuss.

Brother Toad, the Sum discussion was one of the more important pieces of conversation that happened on the website in 7 years.

Ha! Caribe has the best zingers.

Andrew G is the shit.

[One-Fall]

Lol, I don't get why people are getting so defensive about the discussion on terms.
Spikeddem

- I'm not offended by a discussion of terms (but I definitely think its lame). What I can't wrap my head around is how many posts were dedicated to a piton and what that means. For me, and I realize especially on this forum that I am in the minority, I am much more interested in the skill necessary to achieve what he did. That's what I would love to hear about.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

[der uber]

Lol, I don't get why people are getting so defensive about the discussion on terms.
Spikeddem

- I'm not offended by a discussion of terms (but I definitely think its lame). What I can't wrap my head around is how many posts were dedicated to a piton and what that means. For me, and I realize especially on this forum that I am in the minority, I am much more interested in the skill necessary to achieve what he did. That's what I would love to hear about.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

ok 1fall, back to your AE, LA tolerance and density block training... I've had enough of your chop flapping.

[One-Fall]

HaHa! My man!

[Huggybone]

Hello everybody.

I'm super stoked that line has been sent, I used to look at it and wonder.

Now, why are you all arguing? It sounds to me like some of you are trying to use the 'trad' thing to diminish the accomplishment, and thus make yourself feel a little better about your own particular brand of weak sauce.

I only say so because I've been there and done that. Don't worry guys, other people can be stronger than you.

[toad857]

oh, good. thanks for putting that to rest.

[Spikeddem]

Hello everybody.

I'm super stoked that line has been sent, I used to look at it and wonder.

Now, why are you all arguing? It sounds to me like some of you are trying to use the 'trad' thing to diminish the accomplishment, and thus make yourself feel a little better about your own particular brand of weak sauce.

I only say so because I've been there and done that. Don't worry guys, other people can be stronger than you.

Pretty sure 5.14 trad is as hard as 5.14 sport, physically at least. "Stronger than me" has absolutely nothing to do with my interest in classifying the style of ascent. I don't understand why people think that classifying the approach he took to the route is trying to take something away from his accomplishment. I promise you I don't feel any better about myself because of anything I've said in this thread. That's complete non-sense.

Look at it like this: There are many interpretations of the word "on-sight." For example, IMO, if you overhear someone talking about, for example, where the two cruxes are in a route, your on-sight is blown. If you hear people talking about gear, your on-sight is blown. Hell, while I'm climbing I've observed my friends' encouragement* to me on routes they've done before, and have considered it at times to probably have blown my on-sight (although, I've still counted it as an on-sight because I took the less "pure" stance). To count these as on-sights discredits those that on-sight without these advantages.

There's a reason we have words; they're for describing specific ideas and differentiating two things. IMO, it's fun to BS around and discuss some of those words in a climbing context.

*Example: Suddenly your belayer bumps up their encouragement from a general "yeah, nice, nice" to "Come on dude(tte), you GOT this!" Upon hearing this you assume there's naturally a reason that your belayer kicked up their encouragement a notch. You slow down and realize there's a blank section that you hadn't noticed right above the bulge you were about to depart to. Rather than continue, you alter your approach and rest a bit before continuing.

Is this all wanking around? Yes, absolutely. Do I think others should have to have the same ideas? No, not exactly. Is it taking away from an accomplishment? If giving the most accurate description of an event takes away from an accomplishment, then it was inflated to begin with.

edit: I know I'll get shit for this, especially since everyone will decry "Wow, dude is overthinking it." But, well, I actually enjoy thinking and being critical, so, whatever, bro.

[dustonian]

You should climb more and wank less, especially in the beginning years of climbing. With the added context of actual experience, maybe your online self-pleasuring would carry a little more weight... but then you wouldn't be mewling about "headpointing" and ground-up replacement of a bad fixed pin on 14 R/A2+ to begin with. Ultimately, those who can, do; those who can't, wank. Perhaps graduate study in philosophy would be a better fit than rock climbing?

[Spikeddem]

You should climb more and wank less, especially in the beginning years of climbing. With the added context of actual experience, maybe your online self-pleasuring would carry a little more weight... but then you wouldn't be mewling about "headpointing" and ground-up replacement of a bad fixed pin on 14 R/A2+ to begin with. Ultimately, those who can, do; those who can't, wank. Perhaps graduate study in philosophy would be a better fit than rock climbing?

You get a point for using the word "mewling." Regardless, I haven't really disagreed with anything you've said since you opened the discussion on "traditional" in your response to Kipp. I don't claim to be an expert on ethics, but I've climbed in a fair number of states (>20% of US + Mexico). As such, I've observed several climbing "cultures," and don't feel too uncomfortable commenting on them.

One graduate program is enough for now