Trad as a Fad?

[pigsteak]

see toad has it right...look at that picture as it explains trad climbers to a tee....

hiking shoes, no chalk, heavy pack, no hands on rock, and chasing a bunch of goats....or sheep if that is your persuasion...(who am I to judge)

[caribe]

that's it...trad is something to do when there is no real climbing available,

Kipp, you are playing with your life man. I like you a lot and at this point I have no recourse but to beg you stop for your own health and well being. With the notable exception of yourself, , the tradies on here outweigh the sporties man for man and we know how to swing the baby-killer number 6's. They did not pick me, well, because I am way too dark to be a Visigoth, but the rest of these guys all had parts on those "what's in your wallet" commercials--mass, body hair and breath.

[512OW]

This is how it breaks down...

"hard core climbers" are ego maniacs. So of course, whatever they are into seems like the best thing in the world .
Same reason your aforementioned Scin and Odub thought Trad was cool back then and Sport is great now..... because that is what they were/are into.

P.s. I only know this because I also think the world revolves around me baby. ME!

I still think trad climbing is cool. It would be a lot cooler if all the climbers using it as an excuse would stop acting like 5.11 trad is harder than 5.11 sport. It isn't, its just different.

[dustonian]

Haha 5.11 sport is a joke at almost any newer crag. Go do the West Face of El Cap, the Naked Edge, Astroman, the Yellow Wall, any 5.11 at the Gunks, Seneca, T-Wall, Vedauwoo, or Eldo for the matter & try to compare it to "5.11" at a sport crag. Grade inflation in sport climbing has been running rampant for decades. It doesn't really level out until mid to upper-12 at most places. Even comparing the 5.11 wall at Torrent to Windy Corner is laughable. The climbing on easy to mid-10 in the Gunks, NC or Seneca comes out to about mid-11 or so on the sport routes here. A route like "Good Tang" would come in around 10c in Muir or the PMRP.

[toad857]

Trad routes suck because there are no dogs, hammocks, stereos, children, lines, chalk-caked holds, or people to inform you that you "went off route" somewhere up there by the 5th bolt. Their unnecessary height, exposure, quality, privacy, and memorable nature preclude any legitimate consideration from most RRG climbers. Take into consideration that accidents related to sharp and abandoned 'perma' draws, exploding bolts, and complacent belaying (apparently a "sport" thing) don't typically apply to trad climbing.... and you've pretty much removed everything awesome about climbing in the first place.

So there you have it. Trad is for wankers, not climbers.

Now define a climber.

[512OW]

I am comparing it to those things. I've not seen these grade differences people speak of. The 11s in yosemite, jtree, and vedauwoo all felt easier than the 11s here. The 12s in those places were certainly easier. I find the 11 trad routes here to be comparable to the 11 sport routes. Windy Corner? It has one move harder than 5.9. Id say its about as difficult as Bandolier.

I stand by the idea that the routes aren't graded differently... the climbers lack the skill sets.

[dustonian]

O'Kelley's Crack versus Breakfast Burrito? Wangerbanger versus Centerfire? Leanie Meanie versus Fuzzy Undercling? Crack-a-Go-Go versus some jugwaddle at Bibliothek? Twilight Zone versus any 5.11 in the Red??

Bush-league Sanka-shit laughable man!!

[Shamis]

This is how it breaks down...

"hard core climbers" are ego maniacs. So of course, whatever they are into seems like the best thing in the world .
Same reason your aforementioned Scin and Odub thought Trad was cool back then and Sport is great now..... because that is what they were/are into.

P.s. I only know this because I also think the world revolves around me baby. ME!

I still think trad climbing is cool. It would be a lot cooler if all the climbers using it as an excuse would stop acting like 5.11 trad is harder than 5.11 sport. It isn't, its just different.

Placing gear is more difficult than clipping a bolt. That's why it's harder.

Although, I would have to ask you to tell me which 5.10 sport route at the red is as difficult as Erect Direction at the gunks.

[toad857]

yes, arguing over grades is indeed laughable.

[dustonian]

Although, I would have to ask you to tell me which 5.10 sport route at the red is as difficult as Erect Direction at the gunks.

Great route. How about Fat City Direct? RRG 11c-ish.