Roadside Crag Open??

[dustonian]

haha, good take-home for sure.

[Andrew]

Damn, didn't know this was as involved. Guess I'll be headed to Military wall or Muir this week. The moral of the story is I need to learn trad climb.

Or climb harder.

[ynot]

Land of Arches campground is the place to stay and see sunrises and sunsets and stargazing. Theres 100 crags to climb at,pick one

[doogievlg]

Was military ever closed?

[whatahutch]

Go park your vehicle in the Sore Heel Hollor parking lot. Get out of vehicle and point your finger in the direction of the trees and cliffs and walk up and start climbing. You could start at The Gallery and end at the Shire. Don't miss http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2054 or the 9 at the Shire.

[kneebar]

Seriously....what gives you the right to slam land owners that have in the past allowed climbers to be on there property? None IMO! Is this how it works, once open always open no matter what, the land is trashed. Many have done trail work and tried to do the right thing, including myself, sorry not enough according to some of you. Personally, I'm thankful for having been able to climb there in the past. I'd love to see it opened again but respect what a land owner wishes, not feel the entitlement some of you have.

It's the same deal for torrent, bunch of whiny bitches! And yes I have a pass to go there whenever I'd like, it's because I'm a friend of the owner. I'm honored and if Bob would like the pass back I'd still be his friend and support his decision. Hell, I'd still do trail work just to thank him for the great climbing in the past. Same thing for roadside, if the owners want help removing trails and getting the property back to a natural state count me in.

The property just needs time to heal and a good management plan to limit the damage. The ease of access, quality of climbing, and variety of grades have crated the problem. Having guiding will help maintain the trails and keep some of the routes clean, and what is wrong with making a few bucks.......do you like to make money? Besides I really can't imagine the owners making a killing on guiding, nobody really gets rich in the end.

Ken

[dustonian]

I appreciate your opinion, and would also appreciate leaving out the ad hominem insults and name-calling. What you've left out of your post is history: that the current landowners didn't purchase the land until 2004, and that there were few to no access issues until they chose to close it. That said, I admire and agree with the landowners' stated intentions, and in the context of our current system (see below), I hope they stay true to the ideals they have put forth on http://www.gfnp.org.

I disagree that the crag has been severely damaged by recreational use, although some routine maintenance is certainly in order. Furthermore, the notion of "getting the property back to a natural state" is naive and in some ways impossible in a region historically devastated by 99% deforestation, unrestrained resource/oil exploitation, groundwater contamination, neglect, off-road vehicular abuse, and invasive species run rampant.

Roadside is a beautiful jewel in the midst of all that, loved and maintained for decades by a community of climbers and before that, native Americans. Yes, there are erosion issues at the base of some walls, as is the case at popular climbing (or biking or hiking) areas around the world, and better infrastructure is needed to support the soil. But I fundamentally disagree with the concept that the acquisition of property alone justifies the abrupt closure of land that has been open to the public essentially forever. In European countries and other developed nations, this idea is called "Freedom to Roam"; unfortunately, citizens have no such rights in the United States, despite our posturing towards liberty et cetera... in other words, "If they can buy it, they can close it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

[cliftongifford]

I appreciate your opinion, and would further appreciate the avoidance of ad hominem insults and name-calling.

$175 plus the psychic scarring of being gay-uided... could be worse, to climb at Skytop in the Gunks, you have to pay for the dumbass guide ($280) AND a night at the Mohonk Mountain House ($400+) HAHAHA! That castrated assclown Marty Molitoris who runs the service there used to chase us off all the time. It's hard to imagine anything more pathetic than trying to squeeze a paycheck out of climbing or guiding! And climbing itself is such a lame yuppie sport these days... worse than road biking for sure, even with the blood doping and those "ghey" spandex outfits.

I'm pretty sure you just called every guide, professional climber, and road-biker dumb, pathetic, and gay(not that there's anything wrong with gay)... Do I sense a little jealousy? If it wasn't for trained professional guiding, you'd see even more stupid shit going on at the crags. Get over it. I don't guide for the money (the pay is very little), I guide because it's fun and I like to share my passion with others.

You're not being very conducive to the re-opening of Roadside with your language, I can tell you that for sure. Maybe they can open it to nice people only... and exclude assholes like you. And yes, I directly called you an asshole.

[cliftongifford]

But, you're the kind of asshole that does a lot of work in the Red... Bolting, re-bolting, trail work, etc. So, I thank you for that.

[dustonian]

I stand by my opinion, though I apologize if the facetiousness of the wording is too strong. It's only because this whole thing is like a bad joke. Still: if you're in climbing for the money, please get out now. Teaching people at the crag for fun is great, but squeezing bucks out of beginners or some lame sponsor, well I'll just say it goes against my personal reasons for climbing, exacerbates overcrowding, and "sells out the soul" of what I love. And I said road biking was yuppie, not "ghey"--although the bright stretchy outfits sure are... not that there's anything wrong with that!

BTW in the spirit of full disclosure, I guided for several years and still climb with a plentitude of guides from all over, so the joke is sort of a running one that comes from personal experience. Guiding is fine work if you have a trust fund and want to train yourself to hate climbing.