cletuswilcox wrote:Shear- Are you aware that pd's and climber behavior/impact were some of the deciding factors in the closure at roadside? So there's nothing wrong with aluminum biners being fixed on some of the most traveled routes in the world and it's simply a matter of climber initiative to keep the fixed gear safe to climb on. That would be nice. Unfortunately a majority of the user groups here at the red werent taught to inspect the gear they climb on. That must not be a popular clinic within the climbing gym industry these days. Are you going to be contributing your time and effort to fundraise, inspect and maintain pd's here at the red because that will be a monthly reality if aluminum gear goes up. I think the unsafeness of aluminum pd's is about the only thing that there is consensus on.
Cletus...no where did I state that I thought aluminum PERMADRAWS were safe...I think using aluminum as a permanent fixture on a wall is both short-sighted and not even remotely considerate of anyone else climbing the routes. I was merely responding to the Lurkists statement that he will remove any draws up on a route that he wants to climb...giving no time frame as to how long is "acceptable" or even "safe". I agree wholeheartedly with what you say here. I agree that FIXED aluminum draws aren't safe, aren't good for the crag, and put everyone else in a position to clean up a mess that doesn't have to be. However, aluminum project draws (my distinction between pd's and fixed draws is the top biner being a quick link as opposed to just a regular bolt-end carabiner), can be safe if people use some common sense and scrutinize gear and remove as they see fit.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote.
