not just PDs...bolt standards?

[heacocis]

So Joe Kinder's recent blog post http://www.joekindkid.com/?p=8065 got me thinking...do we need to have a discussion of bolt standards following the current one about PDs? Joe apparently started bolting a line in the Madness Cave, and used Powers bolts. No big deal (I'm trying to keep my self interest in glue-ins out of this), except that the "community" here seemed to say pretty clearly that glue-ins were preferred at the Lode by re-bolting it with glue-ins. What do you think?

[fyj434]

Its' fine just leave the topic alone.

[toad857]

chop 'em all.

fuck rock climbers.

[pigsteak]

if draws are being pulled for safety reasons, then new routes with anything other than SS glueins should also be chopped. to not do that would be hypocritical of those wanting to rid the Red of unsafe practices. I only ask for consistency of wrath.

[Shamis]

Bolt more cracks.

[allah]

Chop all bolts! they need maintenance and 99% of the red has no clue how to inspect a bolt. If the majority of the locals are to lazy to learn how to put in a bolt and inspect one then why are there so many in the red? Once everyone is on the same page there then turn back on the perma draw issue. Its pretty sad that a certain person mainly took it upon himself to rebolt the undertow wall when he lives 2 hours away and there are a lot of the locals that live 5 min away that do nothing to help.

Hardware is a part of climbing and everyone needs to learn how to inspect every piece of hardware on a route. Perma Draws are the new thing in climbing, just like bolts were 15 to 18 years ago in the Red. The community needs to step forward and educate the masses on what a bad bolt looks like and what a bad Perma Draw looks like.

[dustonian]

I agree Kenny.

I also feel that stainless steel bolts--whether glue-in or expansion--should become the norm in the Red. The ~15-20 year lifespan of zinc-plated bolts and hangers in the humid environment and soggy rock here just doesn't cut it. It would be nice if Joey would use glue-ins to match the rest of the new bolts at the crag, as Greg Martin did on Ben and Laura (many thanks for that!). That said, it is a lot easier said than done to place glue-ins on super steep routes, but it can be done. Barring that, stainless steel 1/2" 5-piece Powerbolts and SS hangers would be appreciated.

[allah]

I am pretty sure that Joe is using the stainless steal 5 piece on the new right he bolted right of 40 oz. If he's not and someone wants it bolted with the new glue ins I will take care of that cost for being wrong I totally agree with you that everything needs to be stainless and preferred glue ins. And that would be and easier endeavor if we all had $2500 worth of RB's for new routes. I was blown away at the amount of RB's (I heard a route you were bolting) on the route at the Brightside! I have 2 and never would have thought about buying more. I like your work and it up, someone needs to give Piggy a run for his money on the amount of new routes developed!!!!!!!!!!

[dustonian]

Thanks dude.

$2500?!? RBs are $55 if you get stuck paying retail, 8 or so is enough for almost any route. In several years of use I have NEVER had one fail even in wet rock, sand, mud, choss... despite the issues Joey was having the other day (not saying this is their recommended usage though!!). Sounds like he was having a bit or drilling issue or wasn't cleaning his holes enough maybe (ie. using a blow tube instead of hole brush on muddy holes)..?

Anyway glad to hear he "may" have been using SS 5-piece (although in his blog photo the bolt appears it may be plated judging from the blueish color... hard to tell anyway). One would think when he drilled the holes, saw mud and water come out & the RBs blow, he would realize that plated carbon-steel bolts were NOT the way to go... You know when you drill through the outer layer and hit mud underneath that plated bolts are just not going to last.

[Clevis Hitch]

I talked to Joe and the issue may have been some crud caught in the RB mechanism that kept it from camming/jamming tight. I told him to blow out the RB with some pressurized air and then use a dry lubricant like graphite. Keep it out of the wet stuff.