An Onsight is...

[rhunt]

Most guidebooks I've ran across are not as comprehensive as John's. John tells a story about almost every one of the 1200+ routes at the gorge. The guidebooks I'm familiar with give Name, Grade, Location. That is what the pole is based on.

If a new route goes up such as "Realization" (5.15a) then it gets so much media coverage that you'd have to live in a box to know the grade. Has this route become "un-onsightable"?

This is my point, most guide books have very little information about the 'climbing' on a route. But to say that knowing the grade takes away from your on-sight is crazy!




Yes...if you have watched the video of Chris on it...then you can't on-sight it. But if you do live in a 'box' and have never seen pictures or video of Chris(or anyone) on it AND the draws are on it, you still have a chance of on-sighting it....this is more than just my opinion.

[allah]

pre hung draws ruin an on-sight?????? are you mad?????? get in the madness cave and on-sight somthing there you would have beg some chump to go and pull all the pre hung draws and then you would have to hang your own draws???? that just sounds fucking retarded. To me, a person can on-sight something with the draws already hung, but the person cant know anything about the climbing on the route. They can know how many bolts and how long it is, the grade the name, and if there are draws or no draws, that to me makes no difference what so ever. or then if you say that then I guess we have to take 97% of all the hard on-sights in the world and say they flashed them. But hey that is how i feel about the issue, and really there is no "set" definition on the subject it is always under debat.

[rhunt]

Amen Allah

[pigsteak]

ok, ok..let me see if I got it straight..it is OK to hqave preplaced sport draws, and on sight something, but not ok to have preplaced trad gear and get an onsight...why the discrepancy...why is it so hard for people to just use the basic standard, and quit whining about all the in betweens? an onsight, in the purest form, would be no knowledge, period, and no gear in place...anything other is a "lesser" type of send...if it is your ego you are protecting, will saying you flashed it suffice?

rhunt, hanging draws is a lesser onsight, as it is a lesser redpoint....who are we fooling..everyone knows hanging draws on routes at our limit is harder than climbing the route with gear up....I prefer to say the following, to quantify... " I redpointed that route, with the draws hanging"...that way if I merely say I redpointed it, it can be assumed that I hung my own...

I realize that is not the typical manner of spraying, but in So ILL we tend to try and not cheat on a route..if we do, then we lessen our spray as well...

[pigsteak]

allah, so even by your definition, some hard core dude or dudette who DID hang their own draws in the madness cave would garner much bigger props from you, cause it is waaaaaaay harder to do....isn't that the whole point....the purest form of climbing, like the first caveman did.....(without the bolts of course..)

btw, why not just hang your own, and ignore the ones already hanging there..no one has to pull em...

so allah and rhunt, what exactly do you two suggest we call a send when the person has no knowledge at all, not even the rating, walks up and sends, and hangs their own draws...

btw, this is actually quite hilarious..because 96% of us rarely onsight...we like to pretend like we do, but in reality it is very difficult to even find routes at your home crag to onsight, if you have been climbing for any length of time...

[rhunt]

so allah and rhunt, what exactly do you two suggest we call a send when the person has no knowledge at all, not even the rating, walks up and sends, and hangs their own draws...

an on-sight

[rhunt]

ANOTHER NEW FLASH..(hehe).

Rhunt will be at the Madness cave this weekend to remove all the fix draws so to protect future potential on-sights. If you own the draws please come and pick them up, I will leave the all the rest at Miguel's.

[Wes]

This is why I go bouldererering....

Wes

[pigsteak]

sorry rhunt..there ain't a ladder tall enough for you to reach em all....

ok, so my new vote is for the following...from now on, any way you can cleanly climb a route is a redpoint..stepping on bolts is cool..pulling on a draw is cool, doing it on TR is fine...as long as, and this is the only rule, as long as your conscience is "ok" with your send....

if this is the case, then you can proudly strut your stuff at miguel's and proclaim you redpointed such and such...
case closed.

[allah]

Its all about Ethics YO!!!!!!!! If i wanna stick my dick in a draw for a no hands rest then so be it, i will stil consider it a send (if that is humanly possible and if i did have those ethics) so my point is that Pig Steak is a crazy anal lickin chump that thinks he is all high and mighty on the Forum cause he's the "bot". he is just a self indulgent whinner that thinks he knows it all cause he's the "Bot". He reminds me of one of those little catholic boys from boston, but nope he's from So. Ill. and they all call him the "bot". well Mr. Bot heres a site for you to get some joy out of life http://www.worldsex.com/ Now you can get off the site and atleast work your fore arms out a little, which might help your climbing