Community Meeting - Nov 9th

[climb2core]

Yep, I sit here and listen to these people bitching about what....

People dedicated to:
-making the Red a better place to climb
-securing climbing for the future
-actively seeking community input to help determine a course of action
-educating the climbing community and trying to make the Red safer for all of us.

And yet Clevis is in support of the bold actions of the Crew...

well, now. It's nice to see someone else traveling down the dark road with me...

YNP1 you already stated you could care less...

But I have no dog in this fight... I couldn't care less what happens with the PD thing.

So why do you care that people are trying to get together and do something in a constructive and inclusive nature?

toad857, you seem to agree that aluminum mank is not the answer...

Let's just hope someone's rope doesn't get severed on a shitty aluminum draw on chainsaw. However you defend or justify it..... nobody wants to see that happen again.

So, why the push back to a group trying to spearhead a community driven decision that would prevent exactly the scenario you just described?




You guys don't think that that the members of the RRGCC, Ray, and other influential members of the community can't have a profound influence on the ethics that govern climbing in the Red? Wake up. They have earned the climbing communities respect and they also have the means to spread the message. But... they don't want it to be just THEIR policy determined in closed room... they want it to be OUR policy determined by careful thought and deliberation. So if you care or have an opinion about PD's in the Red, now is your chance. Joe, I don't think you could really care one way or another, so why waste your energy bitching about it? Go get us access to the NFS. Krampus, step up and have an opinion because the laissez-faire approach hasn't been working that well so far.

[pigsteak]

'Top-down' enforcement does not work for a 'bottom-up' issue. No discussion needed--it's only rock climbing.

what the hell does that mean? who is this "top down" you speak of? who is the "bottom up" you speak of?

and if no discussion is needed it seems like 35 plus pages here would disagree.

but in case I am misunderstanding you, are you saying it is ok for the draws to be stripped by whomever/whenever, because it is "just rock climbing"..... and likewise, the next crew can go back and hang new ones? seems like a bit of consensus on the issue would make more sense.

don't we already have that on certain issues: bolting cracks, not lowering from the new glueins, not top roping thru fixed gear, etc...why is this issue any different?

[pigsteak]

btw, I am not spearheading this meeting in any way, but I think it is productive that SSS has stepped up to help out. much akin to FRC bolting by Jeff, these are the behind the scenes jobs that get little exposure or thanks.

[ynp1]

C2C, you remind my of WOODCHUCK008... If you don't remember that Nigga then you should look up some of his old post...

1000+ post in a year! I call that a virus.

[climb2core]

C2C, you remind my of WOODCHUCK008... If you don't remember that Nigga then you should look up some of his old post...

1000+ post in a year! I call that a virus.

you remind of these guys...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN6UAzYY ... re=related

Not sure which one yet. but definitely from that family.

[ynp1]

Really??? That is what you got?!

I bet you are one of those people that when in Kentucky, will call the cops on a person that looks like a Kentuckian, because they HAVE to be up to no good.

[climb2core]

Ha ha.. you got me. You d man.

[Clevis Hitch]

Yep, I sit here and listen to these people bitching about what....

People dedicated to:
-making the Red a better place to climb
-securing climbing for the future
-actively seeking community input to help determine a course of action
-educating the climbing community and trying to make the Red safer for all of us.

And yet Clevis is in support of the bold actions of the Crew...

well, now. It's nice to see someone else traveling down the dark road with me...

YNP1 you already stated you could care less...

But I have no dog in this fight... I couldn't care less what happens with the PD thing.

So why do you care that people are trying to get together and do something in a constructive and inclusive nature?

toad857, you seem to agree that aluminum mank is not the answer...

Let's just hope someone's rope doesn't get severed on a shitty aluminum draw on chainsaw. However you defend or justify it..... nobody wants to see that happen again.

So, why the push back to a group trying to spearhead a community driven decision that would prevent exactly the scenario you just described?




You guys don't think that that the members of the RRGCC, Ray, and other influential members of the community can't have a profound influence on the ethics that govern climbing in the Red? Wake up. They have earned the climbing communities respect and they also have the means to spread the message. But... they don't want it to be just THEIR policy determined in closed room... they want it to be OUR policy determined by careful thought and deliberation. So if you care or have an opinion about PD's in the Red, now is your chance. Joe, I don't think you could really care one way or another, so why waste your energy bitching about it? Go get us access to the NFS. Krampus, step up and have an opinion because the laissez-faire approach hasn't been working that well so far.

O.k. Let me be clear about what I am for and what I am against.
1) If you really wanted a "community" decision to be made, you'd pack up that shit-show-of-a-meeting and have it at Miguels on a Saturday night. That way you'd have more input from climbers rather than the usual suspects. Not just some little back room deal worked out by the mono-tones that live in Louis-ington. You know the people in THAT town; because they are the ones that call themselves local and get their mail 60 miles away. While trying to have get togethers over tea and coffee and set policy for other people inhabit a car year round for the opportunity to climb.
2) I'd love to help with the LAC. But outside of starting my own users-group and competing with the CC for the FS attention( I don't think the FS would appreciate it and would see it as a fracture of will, capitalize on that and NEVER get the LAC up and running. What I would rather see is the CC split its efforts, one with their gay-assed land aquisitions and the other to what the CC was originally set up to be. ) I'm on the black list.
3) consider this, you guys have set in you little cubicals and postulated how Miguel should run his business, You've said the camping was too cheap and it attracts the wrong crowd. You blame miguels for whats wrong with the gorge when whats really wrong is you. You're pretentiousness exceeds you. Who do you think real climbers are, the ones with the houses with the two car garages and the picket fences with the barbeque out back or is it the guy eating out of a cooler and cooking his food over a stove on a picnic table?
4) you set this lofty goal of PD's at the mother load. Who's going to enforce it- You going to take your day off from the corporate universe to go and "police" the crags? You're just going to bitch about it later. Besides, you don't get it. Dario owns the Load. What he says goes. CC land is far removed from the load. You can't set policy for land you don't own or manage. But you sure enough will try,\.


Like I said, if you want a real meeting to resolve real issues then have the meeting at Miguels non sequitur

[ynp1]

Damn it Joe! I was on my way to highjacking this thread and you have to come in and bring it back to it original point (well kind of).

[pigsteak]

let's make sure and correct number four clevis....Dario owns PART of the Lode. He does not own the Undertow wall where the PD's were stripped. And since you say that what Dario says goes over there, care to share with us what his opinion is on the matter? Last I heard, he is staying above the fray, and letting the community try and work it out. Am I incorrect in that assessment?

And enuf with the "so and so" isn't local BS. We all love the Red, and living out of a van doesn't make someone more or less noble than the person who only chooses to climb on weekends.