The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

[dustonian]

Exactamente, Margarita!

[clif]

WMA allows no climbing.

Wilderness management area? State land; county land?

Caribe-if you're interested in opening new rock (well, obviously pigsteak and a few others know a lot more than they're saying..) i'd sure check out the area west of fixer and northeast of the Kentucky river/east of Ravenna. that is an enormous cliffline. as pig seemed to suggest, it's oil country... but maybe you know all that, too.

[captain static]

The Red has become one of the destinations for many climbers from all parts of the world. Back in 1992 only a few climbers visited the Red and Miguel's was busy when there were 15 tents in the back. Most of the growth comes from the sport itself. climbers of all ages and backgrounds. This particular year we had great weather every weekend which it is well deserved after a bad Winter and Spring. Rocktoberfest attracted a huge crowd this year...I think the biggest so far according to their post. We invited them in to participate and to give money so we can have secured climbing areas. Areas like Roadside were closed...and a few over the years...part of Military, Pocket Wall, The Arena, Oil crag....it would be nice to have those areas open to disperse climbers around but I am sure there are new areas soon to be open which are on the process of development. This past Spring we went during the week to Muir and our car was the only one there...and at the cliff, we were the only ones all day long in a beautiful sunny day....days that that reminds me that yes, it is crowded but soon the crowds will leave and the place will go back to the normal flow of the locals...in the process we got to meet and talk to people from all different parts of the world, made new friends and saw old ones...got to share our little heaven with them. Complaining about the crowds reminds me of people that go to church complaining about the sinners in church....after all we are all sinners...

+1

[clif]

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[Jeff]

Looks familiar clif. Believe that's FS land.

[pigsteak]

oh, I thought his picture was one of those things where we were trying to read a "word" in there.

I saw "go away climbers"....lol

[dollyjn]

Pack it in; Pack it out, including banana peels and pet mess. Carry a trash bag and pick up things as you see them. Go above and beyond if you really love the place!
Use judgment to limit numbers based on a first come, first served thinking. And DON"T overdevelop any land, the more development, the more maintenance will be required.
This means more requests for donations and more requests for assistance. And then there is the threat of closing land because people don't behave in a certain manner. Some are allowed privilege and others are basically shut out in one way or another.
Loving where one lives and vacations means enjoying it, caring for it, respecting one's neighbor and guests. Recently I have seen posts in various locations putting down the locals on a variety of levels. Please stop, you are not superior.
Respect the land and the folks who live here.
Thank you kindly.

[clif]

Recently I have seen posts in various locations putting down the locals on a variety of levels. Please stop, you are not superior.
Respect the land and the folks who live here. Thank you kindly.

are you talking about Australia?

[dollyjn]

Sure, Clif

[clif]

Pack it in; Pack it out, including banana peels and pet mess. Carry a trash bag and pick up things as you see them.

Go above and beyond if you really love the place!

well said.

Use judgment to limit numbers based on a first come, first served thinking.

And DON"T overdevelop any land, the more development, the more maintenance will be required.
This means more requests for donations and more requests for assistance.

And then there is the threat of closing land because people don't behave in a certain manner. Some are allowed privilege and others are basically shut out in one way or another.

i feel your passion and appreciate the sentiments but i'm a little lost in translation. do i need to reconcile 'first come first serve thinking' with 'some are allowed privilege and others are basically shut out..' ?, 'certain manner' potentially leaves a lot of room for interpretation and/or exclusion, and 'overdevelop' - i definitely share your concern about expanding too fast and the eventual neglect that follows, but to me that is why the emphasis on education/guidebooks is important.

peace