"The List"

[bentley]

That was my gear on TTR, there was also other folks gear I suppose replacing what needed to be replaced.

Those were also my bolts, my hangers, my holes drilled. My busted knuckles on the wall, my burning kidneys from hanging in a harness for hours. Those were my nerves from rapping in for the first time to place the anchors just right. That was Blake and I that spent a lot of time placing the first few bolts so as to reduce the likely hood of someone decking. Those were my wifes countless hours belaying me to sort out a sequence up 100+ feet of bad ass climbing.

My only reason for posting this here and not on the original post was to hopefully avoid the mindless dribble that is the original post of perma draws.

Thank you so much for for saying "I appreciate the work u do". That means a lot. Please don't stop at me, there are a lot of us that pour countless hours into the best sport climbing area in the world. Comments like that keep us going.

Thank you.

[climb2core]

My point is not to berate or belittle you. I get it, developers like you are the only reason we can be bitching about what type of gear to hang up. My point is this... Even the best well intentioned placed gear by our community leaders can have terrible consequences. We need a systematic way to eduxate and to manage this to prevent more cut ropes like at the surf or old webbing that fails.

So let me reiterate, thanks for everything you do. When I get stronger I plan getting on TTR and after I send I will buy you a 6 pack of your favorite beverage.

[Rotarypwr345704]

Routes To Equip:

At The Lode
None

At Bob Marley
None

Drive by
None

Shady Grove
None

Purgatory
none

gold coast solar
none

Darkside

Total # of Routes: 0

[pigsteak]

Any thought on this solution. The only draws to be left up MUST be steel PD's..anything else is considered abondoned gear and will be stripped at any time. That way, each "project" climber should go out and purchase a dozen steel draws and hang them on their proj while working it. Once done, remove your set and move them to your next project.

Does anyone have a problem with that? Only steel biners are to be left on any and all walls. All else will be removed without exception.

Just trying to get a workable solution.

[krampus]

damn piggy, you come up with more solutions like that and people might stop mistaking you for a troll

[climb2core]

Any thought on this solution. The only draws to be left up MUST be steel PD's..anything else is considered abondoned gear and will be stripped at any time. That way, each "project" climber should go out and purchase a dozen steel draws and hang them on their proj while working it. Once done, remove your set and move them to your next project.

Does anyone have a problem with that? Only steel biners are to be left on any and all walls. All else will be removed without exception.

Just trying to get a workable solution.

I think that would be the best way to project something. Get rid of the community draws with no ownership. They could be sold at Miguels. Of course people will either not follow through out of either ignorance or choice. So, education would be needed and it would need to be a community effort to strip aluminum abandoned gear with the intent to label and return to the owner. ie. It would suck to come in from Italy, not understand the local ethics, and have your draws taken as booty.

[tbwilsonky]

repeated discourse and persistent practice always codify the norm.

that said, what's to stop climber X from putting steel draws on his project and leaving them for his bro? and once we're about 5 'bro transfers' deep how is that different than just having steel up permanently?

satan. advocation. etc.

[climb2core]

repeated discourse and persistent practice always codify the norm.

that said, what's to stop climber X from putting steel draws on his project and leaving them for his bro? and once we're about 5 'bro transfers' deep how is that different than just having steel up permanently?

satan. advocation. etc.

Nothing. They will just wear out slower that the aluminum.

Maybe that would would work with the bi-annual community based removal of ALL fixed gear for that reason. Take down everything, if it is abandoned it will not be claimed.

[dustonian]

This whole perma draw thing is nuts! If this much effort was Put into finding and securing climbing areas we could have added hundreds of routes to the red that would be open forever. Instead you are all waisting time bitching about something that is going to solve nothing!

Please stop waisting time trying to put an end to perma draws.

Go on a walk, find more rock and help secure it. perma draws are a part of sporting climbing. Get over it.

Exploration and development is a part of sport climbing. Get on it!!

Yep!! Bentley nails it.

[Corona]

It's up to Rick and Liz Weber, of course, but I might suggest the addition of permadraws to Fury and Confederacy of Dunces at Bibliotek (not just because of the pertinence of their names, either .) They're great routes that would then get the traffic they badly need but don't get because of the aggravation of cleaning the draws off of them.

In the Southern Region, I would highly recommend thoughtfully installing a few extra-long cabled permadraws to cut down on the absurd amounts of drag caused by the bolt line. It's a brilliant line, but between cleaning it and pre-equipping it with ultra-long extendables, it doesn't get the traffic its quality warrants.

While wear and tear on fixed hardware is always a concern at crags that aren't as closely monitored as the Motherlode, both Shady Grove and Bibliotek see low enough levels of use that the draws are unlikely to need to be replaced on a regular basis.

I am happy to install the hardware if needed.

Ryan