Someone dropped at the Lode....again

[climb2core]

So what should people do when accidents like this occur?

It seems like some people would agree that mistakes happen. It seems like there's always details that can be handled better. The climber could have mentioned he was dynoing, for instance. The belayer could have made sure he could see the climber - if it was possible to do so. The climber could have communicated to the belayer about the possibility of a fall at such and such spot on the route.

Part of good belaying is simple communicating. It seems pretty cold to shame someone when a mistake happens. Again, I'm not defending anyone here, but I am curious how we as a community should react in these situations--and they can happen pretty often. If there is a climber with a shitty attitude, I get that. If they are genuinely sorry and unsure about what happened, I feel like people should work with them and figure out what happened and correct the mistakes rather than shame them outwardly and dickishly like I saw last weekend. Again, at least some of this shaming was coming from said belayer I know that isn't exactly a Petzl Ambassador for proper belay technique.

The first thing that needs to be done is for an accurate (as possible) account of what happened. Without his honest input, a video, or someone that was closely watching his belay during the fall, this isn't possible. Without the facts, you have no business ripping into the guy. My guess is 99.9% of these droppings are completely due to belayer error. But right now there is too much speculation without any evidence.

Then you need to ask yourself...have you ever given a compromised belay for even a second? I know that I have... I have belayed with an ATC and had my hand slip off the rope as I went to feed slack or re-adjust... Just for a spit second. I have never had any fall on me when feeding slack with a gri-gri, but what if?

My point is that there is sloppy, shitty belaying and there is shit that just happens. Before you give someone a tongue lashing, make sure you know the difference.

[Clevis Hitch]

Then you need to ask yourself...have you ever given a compromised belay for even a second? .

To answer your question,no. If someone gets dropped, its the belayers fault. Own it.


(you sound suspiciously like a belayer who dropped his climber and who is trying to "bargain" his way out of the responsibility. Sorry, it's still your fault)

[climb2core]

Then you need to ask yourself...have you ever given a compromised belay for even a second? .

To answer your question,no. If someone gets dropped, its the belayers fault. Own it.


(you sound suspiciously like a belayer who dropped his climber and who is trying to "bargain" his way out of the responsibility. Sorry, it's still your fault)

Joe, I have never dropped anyone. But you should climbing with me sometime... there could always be a first.

Now, I am not saying that because shit happens that this gives you immunity from taking responsibility. If I ever drop someone (even you) I will have demons that I would have to deal with for the rest of my life. What I don't need is some jackass at the crag laying in to me.

Lastly, you are full of shit. No one can belay/climb for decades and be perfect for every second. Own it.

[727foxtree]

Then you need to ask yourself...have you ever given a compromised belay for even a second? .

To answer your question,no. If someone gets dropped, its the belayers fault. Own it.


(you sound suspiciously like a belayer who dropped his climber and who is trying to "bargain" his way out of the responsibility. Sorry, it's still your fault)

Yeah - black and white. Everything's that simple...

[Clevis Hitch]

Lastly, you are full of shit. No one can belay/climb for decades and be perfect for every second. Own it.

I have climbed a decade and yes I am perfect at least as far as belaying is concerned. At least so far. And it is black and white. It's that simple

[caribe]

What I don't need is some jackass at the crag laying in to me.

Bad attitude. Let's all be open to criticism at the crag. If I am doing something(s) wrong, please approach me and let's discuss it.

[climb2core]

What I don't need is some jackass at the crag laying in to me.

Bad attitude. Let's all be open to criticism at the crag. If I am doing something(s) wrong, please approach me and let's discuss it.

You misunderstood I believe... I was saying if I dropped someone while belaying, coming after me to attack me right after the drop would be a bad idea. It won't fix anything and would only add to the stress. Now pro actively approaching another belayer when you notice potential safety problems is another thing... And that I believe is what you were referring to...

[pigsteak]

What I don't need is some jackass at the crag laying in to me.

Bad attitude. Let's all be open to criticism at the crag. If I am doing something(s) wrong, please approach me and let's discuss it.

Mr. Cammers, I believe your belief in multiple gods is wrong...please correct. thank you.

[caribe]

C2C: sorry I misread. Kipp: WTF?? Multiple gods I don't 'believe' in any, and I don't want to know where you pulled this from.

[pigsteak]

you are truly delusional now Mr. Cammers....

you have Pigsteak, Ray-dawg, ScoBro, and the click-up as your gods. please choose.