Top roping... When pull the rope?

[caribe]

if people want to lead, i think they should start leading early. when they can top rope 10a's they should start leading 5.8s.

I can get behind this opinion. Seems like a good way to do it. I would also throw in learning how to fall and minding the rope. Leading something way below your ability let's you get away with sloppy rope management.

[pawilkes]

getting on routes that are above your ability has always bugged me. I don't understand why people prefer to flail on routes way to hard for them instead of working something they can do. this actually is like the point i made above about developing your abilities. becoming a solid 5.11 climber is going to help you send 5.12s more than falling up 5.12s will. it took me 5 years to get from 12a to 12b because I climbed a couple 12a's before i was ready for the grade. once i built up solid skills at 11+ to 12b, it took me 7 months to go from 12c to 13a. this was not because I became that much stronger, it was because i had a solid base of experience.

no value judgements here. just analysis.

1) how do you know your ability if you don't go above your comfort level?
2) being a solid 11 climber will help you comfortably climb 5.11 moves on 5.12s. they will not necessarily help you climb harder moves.
3) getting on a few 12's "before you are ready" doesn't mess up your progression through grades. it took you 5 years to go from 12a to 12b because you decided not to climb outside your comfort level.
4) it took you 7 months to go from 12c to 13a because you decided to try harder before you moved. had you kept to your previous pacing you would have sent 5.13a in 2017.
5) you were stronger from bouldering at the gym. your experience just allowed you to focus your strength.

as to your first point, you are correct. there is pushing yourself (and abilities)s and there is getting on stuff that you have no business being on. I was referring to the later of these two.
second point. climbing lots of 5.11s will get you in shape and give you a skill library that you can then apply to 12s or any grade really. in my opinion, developing a diverse skill library early on is better than developing strength.
and the rest of it you're mostly right.

[krampus]

Whatever the skill level, I trust my ability to belay and keep someone out of danger, even if I had to sacrifice my knee.

When shit happens shit happens so fast one never knows what the hell one is sacrificing. You think you are sacrificing a knee and your inert keyster ends up hitting the ground.

for sure, I would expect proper instruction on climbing would include an extensive lesson on the inherent risk involved. That risk is the same on your tenth year as it is on your first day

[mike_a_lafontaine]

if people want to lead, i think they should start leading early. when they can top rope 10a's they should start leading 5.8s.

I can get behind this opinion. Seems like a good way to do it. I would also throw in learning how to fall and minding the rope. Leading something way below your ability let's you get away with sloppy rope management.

Sloppy rope management can kill you at any grade, but yeah, better to learn rope management when you don't have to worry about climbing something over your head. Bottom line, leading is so mental, it doesn't matter the grade you climb or how you were instructed. You never know how you will handle the sharp end until you are on it for the first time. A 5.11 climber who doesn't have a lead head is more than capable of wigging out on a 5.8 climb.

[Rollo]

once leading is started.... no more top rope.