Ignorance or volume

[StepLEFTskyline]

[quote="Redpoint"][quote="StepLEFTskyline"]The problem is really neither. The problem is a lack of experienced climbers willing to teach new climbers the ethics and the importance of safety. This seems to be because people are trying to keep climbing to themselves. If you like it or not climbing doesn't belong to anyone and i'd rather have safe clean crowded crags than dangerous dirty and still crowded crags.[/quote]

I watch experienced climbers do dangerous things all the time, like holding down the cam when feeding slack. I recently watched a guy fall 30 feet and was a few feet from decking because his very experienced belayer was holding down the cam feeding slack when he fell. I think the climber thought he was so high up there wasn't any need in telling his belayer he was falling (as in he wasn't likely to deck) even though it was time for him to clip the next bolt.

I also watched some new climbers back clip the first few bolts, but at least after I told them what was going on he yelled take and lowered so I could explain to them what was going on. Both of these incidents happened at the gym though.

I think it's obvious, the more people climbing in an area, the more incidents that are going to happen.

You said "The problem is a lack of experienced climbers willing to teach new climbers the ethics and the importance of safety.", but isn't it the responsibility of a new climber to get proper training when taking on a new dangerous sport. Maybe they should cough up some money and pay a professional to teach them, no they are too cheap for that. You make a good point though, I saw some climbers put their beginner friend on a 10C, and he kept taking lead falls. I looked at the situation and could tell he was about to get hurt, and I told them but they all laughed and continued. Right after that the climber fell with one leg aiming down because of a ledge and he said he thought he sprained his ankle. It's morons like them that are a big part of the problem I'm sure. I think it's safe to say that there is too many beginners trusting their dumb friends to teach them how to climb.[/quote]

You mention that new climbers should seek some sort of training while I agree this would probably be a great idea and be very effective I think the problem is new climbers don't know where to go to get such guidance. I climbed in a gym three days a week for 4 months before I realized that other people took climbing seriously, this has a lot to do with the time of day I went climbing but it still shows that without a new climber being approached by more experienced climbers they can still get ahead of themselves without being properly educated about the importance of safety and ethics in climbing.

[Rollo]

the last few weeks down i've been doing my first trad leads. i went with another guy who just bought gear...then with a guy that has never led trad.
i'm probably gonna die.

[kato]

Seems like when I started climbing, the ratio of newbies to experts was more even- it was easier to find a mentor. But nearly everyone I've known that has become an expert has eventually moved out west. And then how do you tell an expert from someone that just claims to be an expert? Everyone talks about speaking up when you see someone doing something stupid, but what if someone came up to you and criticized your technique? Wouldn't you tell them to go pound salt? Who are you to tell them what to do? That's going to be nearly everyone's reaction- especially if they tend to be foolhardy in the first place.

[KD]

If they are facing or moving toward the west - I would consider them an expert.

[TradMike]

Accidents happen because people did not do his best to prevent it. Most people believe that accidents do happen no matter what we do prevent it. This is the reason why people are not doing their best to avoid and prevent accidents from happening

[pigsteak]

Accidents happen because people did not do his best to prevent it. Most people believe that accidents do happen no matter what we do prevent it. This is the reason why people are not doing their best to avoid and prevent accidents from happening

so who failed when the rope got cut at the Surf? Who did not do their best in that accident?

[dustonian]

Not checking fixed gear + hard catch = cut rope. Still operator error IMO.

[tbwilsonky]

If they are facing or moving toward the west - I would consider them an expert.

exactly.

[vertical1]

Not checking fixed gear + hard catch = cut rope. Still operator error IMO.

Agreed. Never clip into and then climb above sharp biners. completely preventable accident.

[pigsteak]

Not checking fixed gear + hard catch = cut rope. Still operator error IMO.

Agreed. Never clip into and then climb above sharp biners. completely preventable accident.

my guess this is ignored every weekend at the Lode.