Ignorance or volume

[ynp1]

It is hard to pay attention to details when you are drunk... But you never here about a climbing accidents with drunk people. So drink makes you safer.

[pigsteak]

core, you do know I already bolted and sent Rattlesteak, didnt ya?

[climb2core]

Ha ha! That is great! Pigmy Steak should be a another. Well, anyways send me a pm when u r ready to show me it!

[StepLEFTskyline]

The problem is really neither. The problem is a lack of experienced climbers willing to teach new climbers the ethics and the importance of safety. This seems to be because people are trying to keep climbing to themselves. If you like it or not climbing doesn't belong to anyone and i'd rather have safe clean crowded crags than dangerous dirty and still crowded crags.

[Redpoint]

The problem is really neither. The problem is a lack of experienced climbers willing to teach new climbers the ethics and the importance of safety. This seems to be because people are trying to keep climbing to themselves. If you like it or not climbing doesn't belong to anyone and i'd rather have safe clean crowded crags than dangerous dirty and still crowded crags.

I watch experienced climbers do dangerous things all the time, like holding down the cam when feeding slack. I recently watched a guy fall 30 feet and was a few feet from decking because his very experienced belayer was holding down the cam feeding slack when he fell. I think the climber thought he was so high up there wasn't any need in telling his belayer he was falling (as in he wasn't likely to deck) even though it was time for him to clip the next bolt.

I also watched some new climbers back clip the first few bolts, but at least after I told them what was going on he yelled take and lowered so I could explain to them what was going on. Both of these incidents happened at the gym though.

I think it's obvious, the more people climbing in an area, the more incidents that are going to happen.

You said "The problem is a lack of experienced climbers willing to teach new climbers the ethics and the importance of safety.", but isn't it the responsibility of a new climber to get proper training when taking on a new dangerous sport. Maybe they should cough up some money and pay a professional to teach them, no they are too cheap for that. You make a good point though, I saw some climbers put their beginner friend on a 10C, and he kept taking lead falls. I looked at the situation and could tell he was about to get hurt, and I told them but they all laughed and continued. Right after that the climber fell with one leg aiming down because of a ledge and he said he thought he sprained his ankle. It's morons like them that are a big part of the problem I'm sure. I think it's safe to say that there is too many beginners trusting their dumb friends to teach them how to climb.

[dustonian]

That last sentence is right on; that coupled with the surge in sheer number of climbers has created a perfect storm. Obvious trends like this are rarely unifactorial. I watch people like a hawk and have zero qualms about being a dick to a pack of idiots if necessary.

[vertical1]

Whenever I am at crags that are more popular among beginners, it seems commonplace for an inexperienced climber to be teaching a complete noobie how to do things. Definitely a recipe for disaster. I speak up when I see things that aren't right, but in all honesty, I am not at those crags very often.

[StepLEFTskyline]

I think this article from Deadpointmag.com outlines the best steps to be taken with the surging number of new climbers.

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/adopt-gym-rat

[Redpoint]

I have adopted many gym rats. When it comes to teaching etiquette I always go to the extreme. Instead of saying that people shouldn't bring music to the crag, I enforce a whispering rule if anyone is lead climbing near us. Instead of just picking up the obvious trash, I get them to point out even the tiniest piece of paper or plastic and one of us will always get it. Make a game out of it to keep them motivated. If they say they have to take a number 2, I give them a stick and tell them to dig a hole with it and I only give them a single square of toilet paper. I'm just kidding about that last detail, but I do educate people about burying their waste, explaining that it is becoming a real problem in the Red and that nobody wants to come across a pile of crappy toilet paper. I am all for that article but with new climbers constantly being adopted by dipsticks(which I see very often), the problem is here to stay.

[StepLEFTskyline]

[quote="Redpoint"]I have adopted many gym rats. When it comes to teaching etiquette I always go to the extreme. Instead of saying that people shouldn't bring music to the crag, I enforce a whispering rule if anyone is lead climbing near us. Instead of just picking up the obvious trash, I get them to point out even the tiniest piece of paper or plastic and one of us will always get it. Make a game out of it to keep them motivated. If they say they have to take a number 2, I give them a stick and tell them to dig a hole with it and I only give them a single square of toilet paper. I'm just kidding about that last detail, but I do educate people about burying their waste, explaining that it is becoming a real problem in the Red and that nobody wants to come across a pile of crappy toilet paper. I am all for that article but with new climbers constantly being adopted by dipsticks(which I see very often), the problem is here to stay.[/quote]

It is true there will always be problems and there has been problems ever since people started climbing. Even so being as supportive of an ethical and responsible climbing lifestyle is going to go along way with new climbers (and there will always be new climbers).