Safety first, Canadians second

[tbwilsonky]

but pissing on the trail and disrespecting the planet damn sure isn't climbing.

you're right. climbing is getting in a car which took 90 barrels of oil to create, burning 4 gallons of fossil fuel to get out in 'nature', quibbling about the environmental lethality of human piss, and then coming home to your AC-cooled lair to demonize the user group of which you are a part.

[vertical1]

I could be totally wrong, But I thought I read a thread a while back stating official position of PMRP was to "lower" and Muir Valley was to "Rap." Someone correct me if I am wrong. Of course, toproping should always be on your own gear, though.

[rohr]

That sounds familiar, Vertical. I couldn't find anything saying it, tho. But I did find a few prominent members of the RRGCC board encouraging lowering.

I believe the rules of Muir Valley used to say to rappel rather than lower. I just looked at the rules and didn't see that one. Perhaps the policy has changed? I've always lowered off of routes everywhere except Muir. In Muir I rapped, at the owners' request.

Isaac, good job on speaking up on something you thought was unsafe and uncool--it's much easier to just ignore stuff like that at the crag. However, on this point I think your concern was misplaced. The only kind of rings I would not lower off of are the hollow aluminum type you sometimes encounter on the descents of multi-pitch climbs. I've never seen one of those in the Red. As long as you're on solid rings, chain, quicklinks, etc., then lowering and rapping are both safe if done and potentially fatal if done wrong. The pros and cons of each have been thoroughly discussed on this board...

And, just to be clear, I'm just talking about cleaning the route when you're done with it. If you're toproping a route, do that on your own stuff, not through the permanent stuff. But, of course, everyone knows that, right?

[tbwilsonky]

i'm paraphrasing from a few previous conversations/threads. i believe the Weber's prefer you rap when possible in Muir, but would never force you to do so if you feel it unsafe or even uncomfortable.

obviously you never ever toprope through permanent gear.

[allah]

OK Well then it is different for you than other climbers. Since you are a large beast and she was probably 100 pounds lighter than you then she feels safe lowering through the anchors. If you feel the need to Rap, so be it. If she feels the need to lower through perfectly safe rings, so be it. Sometimes if someone is doing something you wouldn't do, and they are being safe about it, then you might just want to keep quiet about your opinion. Rapping and lowering on a sport route with chains/rings/quick links is up to the climber, its not up to the peanut gallery.

[Saxman]

When you see someone top roping through anchors, just pull their rope when they untie.

[KD]

OK Well then it is different for you than other climbers. Since you are a large beast and she was probably 100 pounds lighter than you then she feels safe lowering through the anchors. If you feel the need to Rap, so be it. If she feels the need to lower through perfectly safe rings, so be it. Sometimes if someone is doing something you wouldn't do, and they are being safe about it, then you might just want to keep quiet about your opinion. Rapping and lowering on a sport route with chains/rings/quick links is up to the climber, its not up to the peanut gallery.

in other words mind your biz

[allah]

OK Well then it is different for you than other climbers. Since you are a large beast and she was probably 100 pounds lighter than you then she feels safe lowering through the anchors. If you feel the need to Rap, so be it. If she feels the need to lower through perfectly safe rings, so be it. Sometimes if someone is doing something you wouldn't do, and they are being safe about it, then you might just want to keep quiet about your opinion. Rapping and lowering on a sport route with chains/rings/quick links is up to the climber, its not up to the peanut gallery.

in other words mind your biz

Exactly!!!!!!!!!

[pigsteak]

lowering from anchors is lazy form. who is paying for the replacement costs? not just the hardware, but someone elses time to go behind you and clean up your mess. you want to lower, then leave a biner every time

[Jay]

...The only kind of rings I would not lower off of are the hollow aluminum type you sometimes encounter on the descents of multi-pitch climbs. I've never seen one of those in the Red.

I pulled two of these rigged into an American Death Triangle with some old tatted webbing off of the Love Shack in Purple Valley...