Who does it belong to?

[Shamis]

Haven't you heard Bob... he wants LESS involvement. Solutions need to not involve Bob or require his time.

I didn't bother to read all 10 pages. But delegation is the key to less involvement. That means getting somebody else to manage this.

[toad857]

Another fun thing to do which would require some collaboration with Miguels would be to take pictures of anybody you have to kick out of torrent and have Miguel hang them up on a wall of shame, and have miguels refuse them service forever. I think Roger used to have something similar up at the NRG. I think he called it "people that fucked up"

Interesting idea...

it could work: it's not about the individual faces (because who gives a crap about some random person), but the idea that "yes, there ARE rules to be followed, and if you don't follow them, the community will look down on you--just like these douchebags".

I'm not sure that miguel would want to ostracize any of his customers in such a way, but the more I think about it, the more it would get this message across to people.

[pigsteak]

If I may ask, Bob, do you have a model that you are looking at for inspiration? if you do not want to manage like the extremes of Webers and Grant, and do not want signage, arent we up against an impossible task?

Decades now of climbers at torrent have proven over and over and over and over that the current solution has failed, esp when a personal residence is so close to the climbing. I wonder if the Webers would act differently if their home was 50 feet from bruise brothers wall....

Just giving a general "act better people, or I close it" mandate seems to leave very little to be done...

[Nit]

Gosh. Gonna put a sigh up for every private crag that has access problems? How many signs do you think there's room for at Miguel's? Do you think people actually read signs? Heck, even one sign? Most won't even read through a three-page thread, and post as soon as they read something they agree/disagree with. Then there's the problem that even though the pizza shop is the center of the RRG climbing universe, not everybody goes there.

[dustonian]

Uh yeah, but some people will read it, and it will help spread info to that subgroup. No one ever said it was a perfect solution Nitwit. Just another way to disseminate information and educate visitors to Torrent. If you never do anything unless it's perfect, then you will never do anything.

[Nit]

Uh yeah, but some people will read it, and it will help spread info to that subgroup. No one ever said it was a perfect solution Nitwit. Just another way to disseminate information and educate visitors to Torrent. If you never do anything unless it's perfect, then you will never do anything.

Can we still be friends?

[toad857]

[bcombs]

Well... we failed the rule test. The rules clearly state wag bag or hold it as the only two options.

[dustonian]

The unspoken rule of all RRG craggin: go crap somewhere else! It's one-pitch snapshackling for fuck's sake, people act like they're on the Salathe Wall or something...

[toad857]

whatever.. the idea is the same

i'm sure a bunch of frequent RRG climbers would see a sign like that and learn a thing or two