Who does it belong to?

[lena_chita]

Clevis - that very thing had been formerly tried. I didn't work so well. Nobody wanted to walk "all" the way down to the entrance to do their thing.

Well how about a mulching toilet closer to the action.

I was very impressed with composting toilets right at the main wall crags in Smith Rock. Clean, no smell... if something like that is a possibility at Torrent, or in PMRP, I will be happy to contribute towards it, and to help is other ways, if I can. Of course, at Smith it seems absolutely necessary-- there is virtually no privacy, no trees, completely exposed steep cliffside between the main train where there are people walking, jogging and gawking all the time, and the base of the climbs. And no way to really dig/bury the waste in the rocky ground.

I remember there used to be a little wooden outhouse at Torrent before, when it was open for general access. It used to be closer to the left side of Torrent, somewhere in the amphitheater area. I only saw it once, years ago. Didn't have the need to look for one during either of the visits in the past couple years, so I don't know-- is it still there?

I think the lush green forrested terrain is actually our enemy, in terms of clueless people's pooping habbits, because people can literally just walk around the corner from where they are climbing, still be very much within the hearing (and smelling) distance of other climbers, and yet feel like they are already far enough for privacy, b/c the trees are blocking their view.

And maybe there is need, silly as it sounds, for an education campain in climbing gyms. Maybe gyms need to sell poop tubes and wastebags along with chalk balls. If you think about it, there are plenty of people who NEVER went camping in their life, never ever-- until they started going to the climbing gym, and went on their first ever trip. There are people who never ever had to consider exactly how they would conduct their bathroom business wen there isn't a toilet facility in sight. So maybe, next time someone posts a question on a forum, along the lines of:"this is my first trip, what should I bring?" the response shouldn't be about ropes and draws, but rather about trash bags and poop bags?

[Clevis Hitch]

Clevis - that very thing had been formerly tried. I didn't work so well. Nobody wanted to walk "all" the way down to the entrance to do their thing.

Well how about a mulching toilet closer to the action.

I was very impressed with composting toilets right at the main wall crags in Smith Rock. Clean, no smell... if something like that is a possibility at Torrent, or in PMRP, I will be happy to contribute towards it, and to help is other ways, if I can. Of course, at Smith it seems absolutely necessary-- there is virtually no privacy, no trees, completely exposed steep cliffside between the main train where there are people walking, jogging and gawking all the time, and the base of the climbs. And no way to really dig/bury the waste in the rocky ground.

I remember there used to be a little wooden outhouse at Torrent before, when it was open for general access. It used to be closer to the left side of Torrent, somewhere in the amphitheater area. I only saw it once, years ago. Didn't have the need to look for one during either of the visits in the past couple years, so I don't know-- is it still there?

I think the lush green forrested terrain is actually our enemy, in terms of clueless people's pooping habbits, because people can literally just walk around the corner from where they are climbing, still be very much within the hearing (and smelling) distance of other climbers, and yet feel like they are already far enough for privacy, b/c the trees are blocking their view.

And maybe there is need, silly as it sounds, for an education campain in climbing gyms. Maybe gyms need to sell poop tubes and wastebags along with chalk balls. If you think about it, there are plenty of people who NEVER went camping in their life, never ever-- until they started going to the climbing gym, and went on their first ever trip. There are people who never ever had to consider exactly how they would conduct their bathroom business wen there isn't a toilet facility in sight. So maybe, next time someone posts a question on a forum, along the lines of:"this is my first trip, what should I bring?" the response shouldn't be about ropes and draws, but rather about trash bags and poop bags?

I'll make you this deal. You get permission to place it and I'll build it and haul it up to the crag. Now these things require a little bit of maintainence. Ask them to make the climbers that climb there "stir" the tub and we'll be all set.Problem solved. No really, I think that this SOLUTION solves at least one facet of the "problem".Really, I do...think that...it solves it...yes,really.

[pigsteak]

Ray, Nit is really Pig and makes crap up all the time....oh wait this is Pig, so maybe I am not Nit...but Nit, why are you on Ray for complaining...never mind, Nit we like your wit....Nit wit...get it...am I drunk?

[ted]

What About Bob? Waiting..........

[Clevis Hitch]

Nobody ever said anything about running it like a park. It isn't a park. It's a tiny piece of personal property.

Good on ya that you didn't let the opportunity pass you by to dump on the coalition.




BTW...Stay classy.

just because you fail to "realize" the problem, and refuse to acknowledge any solution, doesn't make possibilties any less or more viable.


So I'm tired of playing this game. Let me task you with a rubix. You tell me how to fix the problem, you are obviously not going to incorporate anything that I come up with. So lets see you try to figure it out....

[Nit]

I write the guidebook and am heavily involved with the app. Are you saying I can't complain about a crowded cliff because I write the guidebook? Why is that? I always thought that offering alternative crags to people (through making it known in the guidebook) helped to disperse the crowds.

Just wondering, have you heard me complain about how crowded things are? I may have or may not have. Just want to see if you know me or if you're taking a chance and making shit up.

Sigh...I'm pretty sure that answering this is a mistake, and no good will come of it--but I have to try. I've obviously upset you, and I suspect this post will do so even more.

I write the guidebook and am heavily involved with the app. Are you saying I can't complain about a crowded cliff because I write the guidebook?

You have every right to complain about whatever you want to. I wouldn't expect you to--at least, not publicly. I'm not good with math, but:

More people = more guidebook sales.

I always thought that offering alternative crags to people (through making it known in the guidebook) helped to disperse the crowds.

...who then crowd those crags? I love the covers of Backpacker and Outside magazines that proclaim things like "SECRET new area". What did the author think was going to happen? Writing articles, making videos, and publishing guidebooks for the RRG is like writing an article for the Lexington Herald-Leader (with photos, no less!) about how cool your neighbor's Christmas display is...and then being surprised about the extra thousand cars that are cruising your neighborhood every night. Then the poor guy gets robbed, because everybody in the world knows where he lives. Good intentions, right?

Just wondering, have you heard me complain about how crowded things are? I may have or may not have. Just want to see if you know me or if you're taking a chance...

You're the only one of the many RRG guidebook authors I've never met. Here, I'll expose my hypocrisy--I've bought copies of each edition of your guidebook. I'm part of the problem!

...and making shit up.

You set the tone for your forum.
I really like the way Rick and Liz conduct themselves on these forums.

I don't expect much support here. The things I've said are not going to be popular, and heaven only knows, climbers are a cliquish crowd. Even if someone agrees with me (provided the powers-that-be don't delete the post), they probably shouldn't be public about it.

Going back to the main topic, before this digression:

I respect the way Grant handles Roadside.

-- 30 --

[SCIN]

Okay, so you made it up. When you meet me again explain to me why you like to start rumors. Now go away.

[molederek]

For those of you who say that it is easy for a random climber without connections to get the gate code in the morning, I dare say that you are talking like a local, living somewhere in Lexington or Cinci, and able to climb on Thurdays and Fridays, where you can roll out of bed, log in with your good fast internet connection, and if you got your access code, drive to Torrent and climb there. It is definitely much harder to secure a spot on Saturday, and yes, there have been multiple times when I had tried and failed.

I am a non-local (7 hours) and have been able to get a spot both times I tried by waking up very early and using the wireless connection at my campsite or hotel. Personally, I quite like that on busy weekends, I may be able to avoid crowded crags by waking up super early.

It's really unfortunate about the bathroom situation and difficult to come up with a solution that doesn't ruin the aesthetics of the cabins, as would a port-a-potty. I would like to hope that people could just not suck, but if I were running a hotel at the foot of a crag, there is no way I would allow full access even if people behaved perfectly.

[Clevis Hitch]

serioulsly though, If you want to close Torrent to the climbing public. Get one of these code writers to write code that makes it look like you can still get a pass but all the passes are already taken. Should take Ray like, twelve seconds to write it. Yasmeen could probably do it in ten...now I'm not trying to start anything here... 8)

[clif]

IF--

Human waste is the problem and Dr. Metheny approves of Clevis' humus toilet idea and is willing to build it,-

Id' like to see a price list for material and contribute.