Who does it belong to?

[toad857]

Nice to meet you, Ted. I see that you embrace the attitude of entitlement that has caused so much trouble at the red. Lucky for you there are people out there that care enough to preserve access, even for rude dickheads like yourself.

(i'm sure you're not a dickhead... but your message definitely suggests so)

[tambo2]

I'm still not really understanding the issue; is it that people have not been obeying the rules at Torrent, or that they have been writing stupid shit on the online guidebook?
- Sean N

[Spoonman]

Through the years I have climbed at torrent......over a hundred days. I have climbed at torrent once since it was closed, 2009 when Bob opened it for the spring RRGCC function. I have not read what is on the online guide, but Bob posting seems to be a last attempt to help us.

More than anything Bob deserves 100 percent respect. Where all human and imperfect, (and open to criticism) but someone who goes to the nth degree needs to be listend to softly, meditatively, but more than anything respectfully.

Forget Torrent.........It is my general understanding that Bob dumped in the CASH two or threes years to make the payments on the PRMP. Were talking thousands of dollars. As humans lets try to see his view, look at the issues, and hopefully be positive and constructive.

Peace

[pigsteak]

tens of thousands I bet.

[michaelarmand]

I've been to Torrent only a few times since the new access rules. During my visits don't recall observing much "bad behavior" on the part of climbers. I do recall a few people climbing once who did not have a pass - they were either dropped off or parked across the street. If folks like this are the issue maybe a sign could set these folks straight. But we can do a better job policing ourselves.

[Cocoapuffs1000]

I don't post very often, but I would like to comment on this issue. I've never climbed at Torrent, and would absolutely love to climb there given the opportunity. But public climbing just does not seem sustainable at Torrent. The majority of climbers are not dicks, but many are quite ignorant. The gumby horror shows that flood the crags every weekend know barely enough about climbing to keep from killing themselves - do you think they have the slightest clue about access issues and sustainable behavior?

My opinion, Dr. Bob, is that you should close the crag except for renters and private functions. Let it stand as an example that the Red does not have infinite capacity for people to behave as they wish. And yes, if you do this, I would be among those shut out. So be it.


P.S. Dr Bob, regardless of what happens here, I and many others are very grateful for your contributions to the Red - that part cannot be repeated enough.

[local]

i have your back bob. Joe you don't care because torrent is lacking in the 5.6 grade...lol. Jokes aside respect is the key that climbers are losing site of. Respect bobs land because he lets you enjoy it, or just fucking stop a mile sooner and go to roadside.

[gravitycoach]

i have your back bob. Joe you don't care because torrent is lacking in the 5.6 grade...lol. Jokes aside respect is the key that climbers are losing site of. Respect bobs land because he lets you enjoy it, or just fucking stop a mile sooner and go to roadside.

+10 Dario! Cannot believe the attitude of some of these tools!!

[RRO]

I'm still not really understanding the issue; is it that people have not been obeying the rules at Torrent, or that they have been writing stupid shit on the online guidebook?
- Sean N

the issue is still the same as it has been since there were climbers beating their chests. they have a sense of entitlement and that everything should belong to them with nothing invested form their side or even the common courtesy to the things that they do get with no personal investment of time, money and support. they also have proven to what now , three different owners of torrent that they cannot wait to take a shit and take one on the trail at least once a week, they let their lovely dogs run run run and tear up everything in sight, they leave their cigarette butts all over the place, they leave what they had for lunch all over the place, they cuss as loud as they can and annoy the people actually helping pay the bills at torrent, they bitch whine and moan when they cant get in cause the dr wants to rest that day since he worked 14 days in a row, they whine and cry cause the place is shut down for weddings/gathering that again pay the bills and really the list goes on and on and can be seen in every torrent discussion, muir discussion and in the eyes of most the douchebags that are at the cliff.

i spend most of my days trying to keep land open and develop outdoor recreation for the visitors to the area and its locals. i spend it defending our user groups and trying to convince government and private landowners that as a group we are courteous, can self police ourselves and have grown up as a group and can act like mature adults if there are issues. im starting to feel like a straight up hypocrite. threads like this and seeing what actually is happening at the cliffs everyday have just about convinced me to stop my fighting for a bunch of ungrateful people that cant stop the same actions that continually come up each and every year and in discussion after discussion. i dont understand whats so hard about common courtesy ?

joe - most the time i actually have defended you to others and saw the points you were trying to make in your own messed up ways. even laughed at some that were directed at me and those i care of as much as family and as much as as i hate to admit it have even agreed with some things you have said in the past... but this time, your stepping over the line plain and simple dude. if you truly wanted to have a healthy debate that would be awesome, but as has been proven, you dont. you continue to show that every time you type , any point you could have made is lost in the fact that it appears like you are actually striving to look like and act like a total douche. the name calling and speculating on things that you really dont know whats going on and speaking as if your the authority on is old and played out, its not even worth getting upset and trying to talk sides with you about it anymore. i really dont understand ya man. why is it when your in person you can shoot a game of pool, make fun of gumbies, drink a beer and actually discuss issues that we agree and disagree on as a semi adult. but when you put your fingers to the keyboard you turn into a total dick. just dont even know what to say anymore, so, i guess, im done.

[roots]

Cocoa,
Don't make the assumption that it is only gumbies showing Torrent Falls or any other cliff for that matter, the disrespect Dr. Bob is speaking of. Check the elitist baggage at the door.
I think anyone who knows Dr. Bob or has met him would agree that the dude is humble and friendly and not at all the irrational jerk some are making him out to be. Bob is entitled to his opinion and more importantly it is his land so he has the right to do whatever the hell he wants.