I think Hugh left his gear up on Orange Juice!

[chriss]

Seen way worse, and climbed on way worse and felt safe on way worse! If anything maybe you should have just replaced a biner or two.

Definitely looks like just 2 or 3 biners could have been swapped out. Did you replace the draws, or just remove them?

[krampus]

seriously though, what if you don't have replacements, I have left shitty looking draws at the bottom of a rout for the next guy to use at their own risk but if you feel something is dangerous then I feel like we should take it down.

[Savage]

And the debate begins, anew.

[shotwell]

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/e ... ives-1#VRG

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/e ... -1#testing

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/e ... ves-1#cave

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en ... carabiner/

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en ... arabiners/

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/climbing-vid ... -your-gear

FYI, I was more concerned about bones than biners. Some of the biners were obviously crap, especially the crux biner (stuck open and worn) and the lowering gear (very sharp.) The bones were universally in pretty bad shape. The picture of the Metolius bone may not show it, but that draw is worn more than half way through. I'll stand behind our actions.

I also do not agree that it is common courtesy to replace that gear if you pull it. If you read the OP, we did put sacrificial biners up on the anchor. I don't keep a whole lot of extra gear, so I don't have stuff to leave. Just because I don't, doesn't mean I won't replace what looks bad. Continuing to use gear in bad condition is a recipe for eventual disaster. Having an expectation that people MUST replace project draws to pull them just perpetuates the crap gear problem. Did we already forget Tapeworm?

[pkananen]

Plus, it's USFS land, and in a wilderness area. Shouldn't be leaving fixed gear there.

[ReachHigh]

you did the right thing pulling gear that bad. It would have been cool if you were able to have requipped the whole route, but you answered the safty aspect.

[B-rock]

Besides the convenience of the drop-in biners at the anchors...there is no need to leave fixed gear on the rest of the route, Orange Juice is a relatively easy one to clean! That fixed gear is better used elsewhere! (Although, some may want to leave a bail biner or draw at the top crux

[chriss]

I also do not agree that it is common courtesy to replace that gear if you pull it. If you read the OP, we did put sacrificial biners up on the anchor. I don't keep a whole lot of extra gear, so I don't have stuff to leave. Just because I don't, doesn't mean I won't replace what looks bad. Continuing to use gear in bad condition is a recipe for eventual disaster. Having an expectation that people MUST replace project draws to pull them just perpetuates the crap gear problem. Did we already forget Tapeworm?

The problem is that not everyone has the same definition of crap gear. That is why I would be more likely to swap out a couple biners. If I did pull all the draws, I am not sure that I would have taken them. (Is this the place that missing project draws go ..... clearly they were too crappy for continued use.) If the gear was truly as appalling as you claim, I would have probably left them all on the anchors and posted on here.

Climb some routes at the lode or darkside and compare the quality of the fixed draws.

[toad857]

Climb some routes at the lode or darkside and compare the quality of the fixed draws.

not sure what you mean by that, but..

..comparing crappy abandoned draws from crag A to even crappier abandoned draws from crag B does not justify leaving either of them up.

complacency kills. the end.

[toad857]

also, we should all be mindful of the difference between 'fixed' gear and someone's old draws that they leave on a route, possibly never to return.