Cast your vote...

[Rotarypwr345704]

I have always managed to heal on my own, but that said I have very poor ROM in both shoulders..

I think this says everything you need to know. Someone who goes to school 14 years and then has X amount of years actually performing this relatively easy surgery tells you that you're a good canidate to come out of this with a good result? Or you can follow Dustonian here. Your choice. I'm always a fan conservative therapy first, but there comes a time when you just need to get things fixed. Either way, I'll be climbing and having a great time.

Anyone ever tell you you're kind of obnoxious? You also have a habit of jumping to unfounded conclusions. I have naturally poor ROM exacerbated by the fact I climbed and rigged for a living for over 10 years & was too lazy, busy, uninsured and/or poor to do PT, not because I didn't have surgery. Most orthos I've met and/or shadowed agree surgery is overprescribed in current practice...but they sure aren't complaining about the profit it brings them! Yes, surgery is sometimes indicated, but it all depends on the severity of injury and the quality & attitude of the individual orthopedist. The length of schooling is pretty immaterial relative to the practical experience level, aggressiveness, ethics, and mindset towards treating athletes...in all honesty the four years of medical school do absolutely zip to prepare physicians to make a decision such as this. So that cuts your idealized "14 years of schooling" down to a 3-5 year residency of actual relevant information.

Thanks sweetie bumpkins. That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me! Quite Frankly, I don't give a Flying fuck about you or your opinion. All I'm saying is that Someone who has MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more EXPERIENCE than you says this is the route to take. Who the Fuck are you to say differently? Is your name Dr. Dustin? No? Didn't think so. I am quite aware that you have a medical background. But Let's talk about this residnecy thing you speak of. I say 14 years, you say 3-5. Four years of undergrad, 4-5 for Med school and 6 to SPECIALIZE in Orthopaedics. So if my math serves me correct... Hmmmm

I understand that you believe that your limited ROM is due to the fact that you're too "lazy, busy, and poor," and for YOUR particular case that may be correct. But this doesn't mean that it is CORRECT for everyone. That's why we PRACTICE medicine. So you must have SOOO much EXPERIENCE with the long-term outcomes of those who have corrective surgeries vs. those who don't? What I'm really asking is you have done the intensive long-term research to contradict a Specialized Doctor? Just wondering beautiful.

[mike_a_lafontaine]

Thanks Mike, thats the kind of stuff I am looking to hear. And not just in favor of surgery, but how people healed by only resting. I'm just trying to get a realistic feel for recovery time. I have many months before fall climbing, so I will be a good boy do what it takes to rest and heal my shoulder.

So how involved was the surgery? Did they have to suture things back together or was it just to clean up some of the torn fibers? And how was your pain before the surgery? Was it a constant pain, like things were really messed up?

I was a bad patient. I never wore my sling. And I never rested it. But my surgeon absolutely rocked (Melissa DeNeil in Grand Rapids). She specializes in sports medicine and MSU sends many of their athletes to her, which says a lot when a university with two medical schools still sends work out to others. She was very straight forward about what the risks were, what she expected for me after surgery, the worst case scenario and the best case scenario (which, fortunately, happens more often than not with her patients). I did a lot of research on surgeons before I settled on her. And like I said, she rocked.

The surgery was for one total tear, two partial tears, and a torn labrum. The pain prior to surgery was bearable, but always there. I did a lot of adventure racing, and canoeing was hell. Riding my mountain bike for more than 20 miles was a bitch, especially on rougher trails. I was still able to lift and use it, but my left shoulder was noticably warped and the ROM sucked. Now, three years later, I can once again bench press 300 pounds, ride my mountain bike for days, paddle forever, and my range of motion is 100% with no pain. 8 months after the surgery I did a 4-day adventure race that had several sections where I was on my bike for 8+ hours without rest and three sections were paddling for 5+ hours each. Shoulder never bothered me once the entire time. Prior to surgery, there is no way I would have been able to do that without fatigue and enough whining to seriously piss off my teammates.

As for climbing, I sucked before the surgery, so nothing changed there, either.

[pigsteak]

My first pain was ten years ago,and an MRI also showed a small tear (SLAP lesion). I put up with the constant hagging discomfort, but then the summer of 2010 a route put up courtesy of Jeff ruined me. I threw for a hold, my feet ripped, and I loaded the shoulder and felt "it"..I knew something new was now happening in there. went to see Dr Kibler, sent me to 8 weeks of PT, and like you I felt a bit better with strengthening excercise and such. First time trying to climb again, I knew I was no better. MRI this time and Dr. Kibler suggested surgery, which I had Dec 1st. Three anchors put in right shoulder for repair. I like to think I have a high pain threshold, and the first week I wished I never had the surgery. The pain was intense for me, even on meds.

A month out, I knew I would live. I was super dedicated to my PT, not missing a day of doing the exercises in the first 12 weeks. At 12 weeks, I did 5 pushups and a pull up. Here I am at week 14, and I am slowly getting on my home bouldering wall and fully weighting the shoulder..while it sill hurts, I can tell it is "fixed"....

so my final two cents worth...go thru PT and rest first...

in the end was it worth it for me? not sure..I was surprised how little I have actually missed clilmbing. in 20 years as a climber, this three months off is the longest I have ever not climbed. it is weird when something consumes so much of our time...when we have the time back, it is as if we find out is is "ok" to not be a climber. and not obsess....

rest assured, with good weather my drive will come back, but for a brief moment I glimpsed into what it was like to be a non-climbing person, and the view wasn't all that bad. if that thought scares you, then perhaps climbing means more than it should.

in the end, i missed the friendships that developed around climbing....there were those folks who checked in on you because they cared, those who checked in as an after thought, and those who could care less. for me, this surgery merely validated where we all stand. and its all good.

[climb2core]

Porkchop, that was so revealing! So brave of you to open your soul and share your ordeal. You wrote with such pure and transparent honesty that I can only stand and salute you... Here is to you oh climber of class, rock jock of honesty, boulderer of bearing all... This buds for you!

[Savage]

lol.... that was like campfire story time! I have had a few finger injuries here and there, so I've had my share of time off from climbing. Its definitely bearable, especially if I steer clear of the climbing gym just to avoid temptation. I actually had to take off about 3 months during the spring in summer because I tweaked a pulley. But I came back really strong in the fall and sent my hardest route to-date.

While no one wants to be forced to take time off from climbing, it is kinda nice to take a small break every now and then to rejuvenate your passionate for the sport.

[Shamis]

I'd let them cut you. better to be out for a fixed amount of time than to 'hope' it heals on it's own.

[OZ]

For what it's worth coming from me...

Rest it first. Then, alter your climbing style to be a bit less dynamic. I don't know your age, but if you are young enough, it
will probably heal to some degree. No matter what you do though, it will never be the same. Scar tissue is not as strong.

If you are older and have good insurance with a low deductible, then consider surgery after you've tried rest. If you take time off from climbing and do PT, that will either let you know rest is working or it will put you in better shape to recover after surgery if you go that route.

Good luck with it.

[pigsteak]

Porkchop, that was so revealing! So brave of you to open your soul and share your ordeal. You wrote with such pure and transparent honesty that I can only stand and salute you... Here is to you oh climber of class, rock jock of honesty, boulderer of bearing all... This buds for you!

lmao...love it!

[the lurkist]

Here is what you do. You should listen to your orthopedist. Listen to his rationale for whatever he advises. If you still need more input to make an informed decision, you should not come here for a bunch of poorly informed opinions (mine included as I am not an orthopedist, and despite what some may think these guys have the most ass kicking residency and training of any doc save maybe neuro surgeons, and that is coming from a guy who worked for 5 years in sports medicine with several very well thought of shoulder surgeons in Lex- do a pub med search for Ben Kibler and see how many hits you get for scapular dyskinesis).
If you need more input you should get another opinion from another orthopedist. Make sure the orthopedists you are talking with do a lot of shoulders. Your injury is a bread butter job for them. Very straight forward and very well worked out. Take your MRI on a disc and visit as many orthopods as you need to feel like you have consensus. Then you make an informed decision. You might also talk with some PTs who do the rehab to see what their experience is with rehabing this injury.
I would recommend for orthopods who do many shoulders Ben Kibler, Pete Hester, or David Dome at the Lexington Clinic Sports Medicine clinic.