SOUTHERN REGION

Post by **TrueNorth** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:55 pm

I always considered it "a win" if victory could be found on the court house steps, without legal action. Going through the system eats up a lot of time and energy.

JH go back read step 1) of the potential strategy. It is NOT to keep you off the land. It is to establish that those who are on the land have permission by the landowner to be there. Therefore the landowner becomes responsible for the actions of those granted access.

It establishes a catch 22. If you don’t have permission, you are trespassing. If you do, then the landowner becomes responsible.

In fact: if I was the oil company and was working under this scenario, I would secretly rejoice, if the area were inundated with climbers. Hell they may even want you to line up for photos in front of their drilling rigs.

Let us not spend too much time on this issue. Remember it is all-hypothetical.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:34 pm

Post by **SikMonkey** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:38 pm

Yeah, I have to agree with J.H. here. Oil companies read the same ethics book as coal companies. They have the "We have the mineral rights so to hell with the rest of the land" attitude.

Mj

Post by **gulliver** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:54 pm

If I were the landowner, and have had a longstanding relationship with these oilmen ( I might even count some of them as family friends , they have at least been neighbors ) , I could always start weighing other options if I were to come up against your kind of diplomacy JH . I dont think you are helping the climbing community with all this drama. Everytime I've passed the workers , they have always been friendly enough.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:49 pm

Post by **rhunt** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:14 pm

No worries...people assume too much on this forum. I mean the people who post on this page on a regular basis make up about 10%(or less) of the general Red River Climbing population(no offence Ray). So why even worry that this 'drama' will even matter.

There are plenty of un-informed people climbing in the southern region every weekend and they are ignoring the no-trespassing signs assuming they were not put up to keep climbers out...I mean isn't the RRGCC trying to buy this land. Don't climbers already have permission from Mr. Murrey to climb there?

Post by **Jeff** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:17 pm

"After years of climbing in the southern region with no problems why are they suddenly going hostile?"

Because it's only been since this past spring/summer since the explosion of people pouring into the Southern Region has starting causing problems.
Prior to all the talk on this forum (and sure, word of mouth too) about how absolutlty great the climbing was down there, there were a lot less folks climbing and parking there. It has become a problem.
Work on a solution. Get your panties out of a wad.

Post by **TrueNorth** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:28 pm

JH all I was trying to get you to sit tight. All I did was set a mirror behind the oil company, so that you could possibly take a glance into their hand. I had hoped that you would possibly come to an understanding of why and how individual actions might impact this situation.

Yes, there are several ways to counter. But why throw your hand down, exposing any of your cards in a public forum? Do you really feel that an open forum is where we should discuss legal options?

So JH assume that you where in charge of his situation, you needed time for your legal team to collect and verify data, establish a plan to bring or force the oil companies to the negotiation table. What are your thoughts on how you and I and other climbers should proactively deal with the situation until your legal team is ready?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:38 pm

Post by **Jeff** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:50 pm

JH you ARE part of the problem. Drop it already.