Just Curious As To The "Lame" Comment

[quicksilver]

Hey Dustonian,
Whats the deal with the "Lame" for profit gym comment.
I can name any number of very involved, community concerned climbers who started, worked at or owned a climbing gym.
Rick and Liz learned the basics at a "lame"gym. Hoosier Heights is holding a "lame" comp and donating all proceeds to the RRGCC.
Many "lame" gym climbers established many routes at Muir Valley donating hangers, chain, time etc. Many "lame gym types" kick rock ass, both Trad and Sport.
Don't know you, not picking on you. It is just over the years every climbing issue gets the dreaded "gym" tag attched to it as if gyms are somehow responsible for whatever ill is the latest problem.
As if they are responsible for people that don't pick up trash, belay correctly, can't trad climb, don't control their dogs - you name it.
Truth is most gym owners, managers, employees are very concerned citizens of the climbing community and do a ton to help out whenever asked.
Climbing at S. Illinois this past weekend I intervened in two potentially "ground fall" issues. Next day I spent two hours instructing 4 guys at a crag who had only been climbing for two weeks and had
little knowledge of how to tie in, belay correctly etc. They were open to instruction and eager to learn to do things right. Cost to them = nothing, just some new friends with a common interest.
As for the "for profit" well send me 50K and I will be even. Sorry but I am tierd of the "gym" being the problem everytime a new issue comes up. Kind of like stereotypeing.

[krampus]

so where exactly were you when you taught those kids how to be safe?
Where did they "learn" to climb originally?

[rjackson]

Kind of like stereotypeing.

It 'is' stereotyping.

[ynp1]

I think gym climbers are the problem with a lot of the climbing issues... I know it is also the number of climber that there are right now, but that has a lot to do with gyms introducing people to climbing. Gyms often give people just enough knowledge about climbing that they feel like they can go outside and climb "safely" when they really dont know shit.

I have worked at a gym for the last 4 years and have seen this happen with some people at that gym. We tried to teach belay skills and other outdoor climbing skills, but strongly told them that they need to get a lot more training before going outside by themselves. Books and clinics are all good things, but nothing is better then hiring or finding a person to teach you one on one outside.

About the trash and other shit left by climbers... Gyms are located in large cities typically. So that will bring city folk to the outdoors, which I think is a great thing, but they often dont know how to act in the outdoors... Where as 10 years ago, the people that climbed were outdoor folks that grew up in the woods and know how to clean up their own shit.

I am not really hating on the gym climbers, but I think they are a large part of many of the problems we are dealling with at the Red and many other places in the country.

[toad857]

this is kentucky--the ones who grow up in the woods are precisely the ones who don't clean up their own shit.

[krampus]

this is kentucky--the ones who grow up in the woods are precisely the ones who don't clean up their own shit.

I take offense to this, personally, I wipe and bury

[Meadows]

QuickSilver - they are referring to gyms that don't live up to the standards of Hoosier Heights, a gym I know personally to take safety very seriously and offer training in the outdoor experience (on top of the many classes about climbing taught there and outside). While there are other gyms that offer that, there are many who don't.

[whatahutch]

this is kentucky--the ones who grow up in the woods are precisely the ones who don't clean up their own shit.

I too take offense to this. I grew up in these Kentucky woods and I was staring at cliffs for years wishing I knew how to climb. At the same time I was throwing beer cans around in the woods and etc.
However, I learned differently when I went to college. That is where I learned to climb inside a gym and outside a gym. I also learned about taking care of the land you live on and play on.

It is not about where you grow up, whether city or country, it is about education.

And that goes the same for climbing gumbies too. They need a proper education inside and outside of the gym. Some don't want to learn and will place climbing over safety, but it should be our responsibilities as a more mature, experienced, and educated climbers to shepherd those young brash sheep. We should be leading and teaching examples of safety above climbing. The same way we should be teaching respect for our playgrounds in nature.

[quicksilver]

Thanks Steph,
Although I am no longer a gym owner I tried very hard to give new folks as much good info and habits as possible. I think the current staff at HH are still doing so.
I have often said that it would be best to have experienced belayers at a gym to do the belaying for first timers and/or auto belays on a few climbs. Then if the person is really interested they would have to sign up for extended small group classes where they get lots of time working on their skills. Of course this would be expensive but would also generate money from the classes. Someone having to spend some money to commit to learning correctly and thorughly would be a good thing. Kind of like when I asked my original climbing mentor if I could borrow his rope one weekend. His response was I should go buy my own rope if I was ready for that step. So I commited and bought my first rope. Ideally each new climber would have a mentor to teach and train them over a period of time but that is impossible with the number of new climbers around today. Take care.
Mike T

[pigsteak]

QuickSilver - they are referring to gyms that don't live up to the standards of Hoosier Heights, a gym I know personally to take safety very seriously and offer training in the outdoor experience (on top of the many classes about climbing taught there and outside). While there are other gyms that offer that, there are many who don't.

suck up....