The ongoing weekend idiot report

[cliftongifford]

so what about the faders SUM? the rope runs straight vertical through the device, there'd be no way you'd stop a fall with just your bare hands. you rely solely on the device...

[Silk]

Sunday...Sky Bridge Ridge...same sort of thing - belayer way, way too far from the wall. Didn't really grasp the concept of clotheslining the climber in the event of the fall. Less than receptive to the advice. Ya, brah...it's all good until we are the ones that have to carry out your partner because you are standing there in shock because you just fucked up somebody's life.

Anyone have a good, dark humor way of broaching this one? Floss, boss?

[moonbeam]

Divide and conquer.
Split the difference.
Belay your climber half to death.

[krampus]

loose a nut with a catch like that

[Shamis]

Going out on a limb here, but...

Was at a crag this weekend while a group of really strong climbers were crushing every route in sight. Out of the group of 6 I watched 4 of them belay without ever touching the gri-gri other than to pay out slack. And no, I don't mean they were on the brake side of the rope, I mean they weren't doing anything at all. Arms crossed, almost in defiance of anything that could be considered proper technique.

I talked with a friend on the way home who has been climbing for over two decades. His take, it is better to trust the device implicitly than to not understand how to use it and then use it wrong. I think Shamis on here preaches that in every one of these threads. There is a part of me that is leaning that way as well. First instinct is to correct with a demonstration of the proper technique (do as I do), but honestly, if they are doing the hands off method, and not the pinch the cam all the time method, maybe leave well enough alone. Just a thought, amongst all the bad belay harassment. 8)

it's really only an issue while feeding slack. The break line should be held at all other times, but if a fall happens while feeding slack, letting go always seems much safer. I've been using a gri-gri long enough that I do slide my hand back up to the break line and hold it, but if anything out of the ordinary happens that makes have to start thinking I'll even let go for fear of screwing up. I belayed on an atc for about 9 years before using a gri-gri, and then I dropped somebody in a gym, after receiving instruction from the gym management on using a gri-gri. That incident plagued me for a long time (even though nobody got hurt) and I swore off the gri-gri for a while, but I think it has great value in many situations so I was slowly drawn back, but I thought long and hard on how to make sure that never happened again, to me, or to one of my belayers, and the most reliable solution I could come up with was "letting go".

[caribe]

it's really only an issue while feeding slack.

Last weekend I met a foreign kid at the crag. I was in a party of 3 and so was he. I belayed him 1st then it was his turn to belay me.
• I was getting on a route at my upper limit that I had never touched before. The kid pulled out an ATC, I said "You do not use a Grigri." He said, no. In response I loaned him my Click-Up.
• He had never used the Click-Up before. I gave him instructions smattering in two languages. , Right off feeding slack was not an issue. He gave me a clean belay. At bolt 6 I took a few whippers on him. I am heavier, he is in high school and probably a buck 30 soaking wet; my first fall stunned the lad slamming him against the wall. I was happy that he had an auto-blocking device and I was happy that the device was not a grigri.

[caribe]

BTW: one of my climbing partners thought that I was the weekend idiot. He said and I quote: "Damn I was nervous; you gave that kid instructions to use that thing in 3 different languages on your onsite attempt."

[pigsteak]

why were you glad he did not have a gri gri..bc he might not have been able to give you slack?

[mike_a_lafontaine]

Question about using an ATC: I know a lot of people say they like the gri-gri or some type of auto locking belay device incase their belayer becomes incompacitated. I've only used an ATC, I have no idea how to use a gri-gri. But if I back my ATC up with a prusic to a rated part of my harness, doesn't that in effect make the ATC auto-locking? I've never done it while belaying, but routinely do so when rapping. Has anyone tried this? Is sliding the prussik too much a pain in the ass to bother with it?

[KD]

i think i saw some canadians an some guy who was projecting, ass-fuckin at the chains on twinkie. the project dude was in a nearby tree wackin though. really wierd sight