The ongoing weekend idiot report

[Redpoint]

The best thing I have seen at the crag in a long time, a guy on top rope yells down in a very pissed off voice: "Dude wtf pay attention, I just fell like 2 feet".

I had already lead Lord of the flies, and so did my GF, but I felt like top roping the left side, which is an arete. It's cool until you run out of holds about 2/3 the way up. While I was top roping, a lady walks up to my gf and says "you are doing it wrong. There was just an accident from belaying wrong with a Gri a few weeks ago" and she demonstrates that you are supposed to pull the brake side of the rope with two hands. Someone better call all of the climbing gyms, they are teaching people to belay all wrong!!! I am pretty sure the accident she was referring to was the one that happened while lead belaying and someone possibly held down the cam too long.

A guy from Canada informed me that routes are rated on the total climb not the hardest move, and that bouldering problems are rated on their hardest move. He told me he read the definitions and that's what they said. I will go ahead and prove him wrong now:

Example 1: I was reading in deadpoint magazine about a V14(or something like that) where someone found a different start that adds a V6 to the problem, and since it was a V14 with a new added V6 he decided to rate it V15. But wait, shouldn't it still be a V14 since that's the hardest move.

Example 2: Not a very good one, but lets look at a quote from Wiki "The system originally considered only the technical difficulty of the hardest move on a route. For example a route of mainly 5.7 moves but with one 5.12a move would be graded 5.12a. A climb that consisted of 5.11b moves all along its route, would be 5.11b. Modern application of climbing grades, especially on climbs at the upper end of the scale, also consider how sustained or strenuous a climb is, in addition to the difficulty of the single hardest move."

So does anybody know of a route where you do a bunch of 11A moves and it's still rated 11A? Well I'm sure there is plenty. I have read on here that Twinkies hardest move is about 11B but the route is rated 12A, and is referred to as an endurance route. I think for grading routes it can go either way. About a year ago the owner of my gym said a route is rated on the hardest move, but I'm sure there has been plenty of FAs out there to rate their route with a ton of 11A moves on it 11B

Lets look at one more Wiki quote: "There are a number of factors that contribute to the difficulty of a climb including the technical difficulty of the moves, the strength and stamina required, the level of commitment, and the difficulty of protecting the climber."

To conclude, I didn't even bother arguing with the Canadian guy about how routes or boulder problems are graded since everyone has an opinion, it's all subjective.

P.S. I personally felt like the slab on Twinkie was not even close to being the physically hardest part. If the hardest move on the slab really is 11B, then maybe some of the moves on the roof really are 12A. Most of the comments say that the slab is the hardest part, I didn't think it was that bad at all. Maybe people thought it was hard because they were short, or their fingers felt like crap on that thin crimp. Maybe the slab required technique that they were lacking. Maybe those same people thought the roof was easier because they are super strong in their shoulders, biceps, and forearms. It's reasons like those that make grading so subjective.

[bcombs]

I'm confused. You said the guy from Canada stated that routes are rated on the total climb, not the hardest move. Then you said you were going to prove him wrong. Then you sighted two examples that agree with him. Or, did I miss something?

[tbwilsonky]

having a conversation about the meaning of things (especially climbing grades/ethics) is.... nevermind.

[Redpoint]

I'm confused. You said the guy from Canada stated that routes are rated on the total climb, not the hardest move. Then you said you were going to prove him wrong. Then you sighted two examples that agree with him. Or, did I miss something?

You missed something all right; nothing is set in stone like what he was saying. A route might be rated on the hardest move, or the amount of endurance it takes. From what I read in Deadpoint magazine the same goes for boulder problems.

[bcombs]

I guess...

Too many words maybe?

[bcombs]

Oh wait, I get it... the distinction between routes and boulder problems. Maybe that is where I got lost. Must be Friday.

However, I will say, unless I'm forgetting something, there is not a move on Twinkie that is anywhere near V4 / 5.12. It is the whole of the route that earns it the grade. Again, unless I'm forgetting something. I've only been on it once and even then, I didn't send it.

[der uber]

I'm confused. You said the guy from Canada stated that routes are rated on the total climb, not the hardest move. Then you said you were going to prove him wrong. Then you sighted two examples that agree with him. Or, did I miss something?

You missed something all right; nothing is set in stone like what he was saying. A route might be rated on the hardest move, or the amount of endurance it takes. From what I read in Deadpoint magazine the same goes for boulder problems.

Routes are typically graded taking everything into account, which inherently includes the hardest move.

[Redpoint]

Had the Canadian guy said the word typically I would not have deemed him fit for this topic. I will admit I did try to convince him that there is plenty of routes rated on it's hardest move, but he insisted that his definitions that he read were right, and that all boulder problems were rated based on their hardest move, and that all routes were rated on how much endurance it takes.

A guy at my gym thinks that when you are going to the ledge on Twinkie it's 11D if you find the magic jug out left, but if you use the football shaped jug and go right it's 12A. I think he was referring to the move being rated that and he wasn't referring to the whole route.

[tutugirl]

Time to get out the duck tape...which color should it be???

[pigsteak]

These last 8 posts are their own version of the weekend idiot report..nice work guys.