Perma-Draws!!!!

[THB]

another hi-jacked forum............

[clif]

You know what would be rad? If folks started jackin threads! Holy shit! That would be bad ass!

[Rotarypwr345704]

Alright. Real serious question to those of you putting up perma-draws. How are these things attatched to the bolt itself? The ones I have seen, the chains are welded to the bolt itself. Now here's the problem: When I run into bad draws and or bad quicklinks, any joe schmoe can take those off and replace with new shiny gear. But what happens when I get on a route that I've never been on, and get to a sketchy perma-draw? When this happens now with the "project draws" that get left it's a no brainer. I take the extra 4 seconds to take off the bad one, sacrifice one of my own, and continue. Am I now supposed to carry a bolt cutter to replace these things? Am I to understand that I am supposed to clip into this horridly worn equipment (because it will happen eventually) because I can't replace it myself at that moment? Or is someone going to try to tell me that "someone of higher authority and valor" will routinely check this perma-draw equipment to ensure its character?

Maybe I'm missing something?

[dustonian]

Quicklink to the bolt hanger. A chain welded directly to the 'bolt' would be a funny thing indeed.

[shear]

The way a lot of people have done it in Rifle is to 'adopt' a route that they want to see fixed. The draws run about 12-15 a piece, so the longer routes in the madness would take some serious dough...could always go in with someone else. I've seen more death trap draws the past few weeks (and replaced with my own biners) than I care to remember. If we don't police ourselves and take care of this stuff, who will? There's no RRG safety council that goes around and checks all the draws up on routes....either take that shit down or replace it.

[der uber]

Alright. Real serious question to those of you putting up perma-draws. How are these things attatched to the bolt itself? The ones I have seen, the chains are welded to the bolt itself. Now here's the problem: When I run into bad draws and or bad quicklinks, any joe schmoe can take those off and replace with new shiny gear. But what happens when I get on a route that I've never been on, and get to a sketchy perma-draw? When this happens now with the "project draws" that get left it's a no brainer. I take the extra 4 seconds to take off the bad one, sacrifice one of my own, and continue. Am I now supposed to carry a bolt cutter to replace these things? Am I to understand that I am supposed to clip into this horridly worn equipment (because it will happen eventually) because I can't replace it myself at that moment? Or is someone going to try to tell me that "someone of higher authority and valor" will routinely check this perma-draw equipment to ensure its character?

Maybe I'm missing something?

If you encounter a sketchy draw that you can't remove at that time, just clip another into the hanger, right?

[kafish2]

Back on topic... Black Gold, Darth Moll, Kaleidoscope, Spank, both versions of whiteman's, Any of the climbs on the main wall of purgatory, any route in the madness cave, anything on the left side of the undertow wall... I am sure there are a ton more but to answer your question Todd. I would think any of these are steep enough and hard enough to clean to warrant perma draws if someone were to be looking for a place to put them. Also of course are the ones you have mentioned such as belly of the beast. Keep in touch with me on what you decide to do with this.

[THB]

@ Rotarypwr - chains being welded to the hangers... i've never seen or heard of this before... but, like der uber said, you could just clip another draw into the hanger, and you're good to go... the perma-draws that i would hang would just have a quick link (preferrably 10mm, at least) that is not welded to the hanger. so, when you need to replace it, it's really simple!

@ kafish - thanks a lot, man! those are good suggestions... i'll keep you informed about which ones i decide to equip... i think it'll be an ongoing project of equipping routes in need and finding routes that need some TLC, for as long as i'm climbing in the gorge...

[Cromper]

I agree with ka, If I were to invest in perma draws on a route it would have to be paradise lost. And thanks for the time and money you will be investing! This helps lowly college students like me eating tuna fish and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for breakfast, lunch, and dinner

[Joe Finney]

Does the Forest Service know about the perma draws on Mercy and Table? This is making climbers pussies.