Saturday's Accident at PMRP

[Jeff]

Must be October.

[rhunt]

I have to agree with Bentley and others - lowering is usually the best idea. If you are climbing to usual routes at the Red they are over hanging and cleaning them on rapel will be a hard. Some people started this stupid rant about rapell cleaning a few year ago. Excessive wear on anchors is usually do to large groups top roping a route all day directly through the anchor hardware instead of through their own draws/gear. Every climber should have a few beefy quick-links and a tooth brush with them - fix anchors as needed and brush holds.

[DHB]

Excessive wear on anchors is usually do to large groups top roping a route all day directly through the anchor hardware instead of through their own draws/gear.

Actually, the top-roping isn't what does it because, for the most part, the rope isn't weighted. It's actually the lowering that wears the gear out.

Every climber should have a few beefy quick-links and a tooth brush with them - fix anchors as needed and brush holds.

If climbers-at-large hardly ever change out easy-to-replace fixed carabiners (and are just now realizing it's a problem), why are they going to change out a rusted-shut-need-bolt-cutters-to-remove quicklink? There are many things climbers *should* carry: a helmet, prussik cord, first aid kit, shovel for burying their shit... but do they? Hardly.

I highly respect Rick Weber and any opinions he has about climbing. He's not an idiot and would not ask people to rappel if there weren't a legitimate, viable reason. If he wants me to rappel while on his property because he thinks it wears out the anchors, then I'll sure as shit do it and I'll make sure everyone else does it as well.

[jrathfon]

Excessive wear on anchors is usually do to large groups top roping a route all day directly through the anchor hardware instead of through their own draws/gear.

Actually, the top-roping isn't what does it because, for the most part, the rope isn't weighted. It's actually the lowering that wears the gear out.

Every climber should have a few beefy quick-links and a tooth brush with them - fix anchors as needed and brush holds.

If climbers-at-large hardly ever change out easy-to-replace fixed carabiners (and are just now realizing it's a problem), why are they going to change out a rusted-shut-need-bolt-cutters-to-remove quicklink? There are many things climbers *should* carry: a helmet, prussik cord, first aid kit, shovel for burying their shit... but do they? Hardly.

I highly respect Rick Weber and any opinions he has about climbing. He's not an idiot and would not ask people to rappel if there weren't a legitimate, viable reason. If he wants me to rappel while on his property because he thinks it wears out the anchors, then I'll sure as shit do it and I'll make sure everyone else does it as well.

Better worded than my response. The "stupid rant" and "rapel", "rapell", "a few year ago" was just too easy.

[Spoonman]

1. Glad both indivduals are alright! PRMP & MV
2. Clevis you just got slammed big time and, and, ....you must be getting soft .....or policed?
3. Eric, Bently, Meadows....are 100 % correct.........lower.......if it is a rap ring....it can be replaced with a link or biner. Climb a steep route like twinkie and try to rap clean and you will give up this concept, ASP. Bentley is about as level headed of a climber you will ever meet, even modest. too modest:), but good at PR!
4. If you do rappell........knots!
5. If your buddy at the super sport crag, aka ....."Playground" is rappelling do him a favor ...check his ropes....please!

Adding another "transaction" to the climbing scenerio, is asking for trouble. Although the climber is ultimately responsible, why for-go a lowering belay after using a climbing belay for the price (gear wear) that checks in at less than pennies per lower. (ex. quick link @ $3.00/2000 + lowerings)?

[pigsteak]

crescent wrench will do the trick on the majority of rusty quicklinks...

[pigsteak]

and I have to disagree...rapelling is preferred by developers..why, because as all the tattered rotten gear and sawn thru biners prove, climbers will not/do not fix the crap they wear out.."ah, my one more time lowering from these thin biners won't matter"...

man, as I get old, I sure am intolerant of lazy climbers who feel entitled.

[ecp88]

I disagree with the "lower from rings on sport routes" comment; climbers need to know how to rappel. If you don't know how to rappel with 99% confidence then you don't need to be climbing outdoors. I say 99% because you should ALWAYS question your rappel before taking off your backup.

[dustonian]

Rappelling is great and everyone should know how to do it--even sport climbers, especially on less steep routes. Also, as a sort of an unspoken rule, everyone I climb with kind of watches the other tail of the rope come down to give the climber a friendly "OK, both ends are down" kind of thing to make sure before the climber commits to the rappel (obviously not an option on multipitch raps).

To me this is just another responsibility of the belayer and part of the game on one-pitch routes. Obviously if people don't feel solid rappelling they should just lower, but in my opinion if you're not solid rappelling then you shouldn't be up there in the first place. It's a part of the basic skill set for any style of climbing (OK, except bouldering).

[louisville_climber]

Rappelling is great and everyone should know how to do it--even sport climbers, especially on less steep routes. Also, as a sort of an unspoken rule, everyone I climb with kind of watches the other tail of the rope come down to give the climber a friendly "OK, both ends are down" kind of thing to make sure before the climber commits to the rappel (obviously not an option on multipitch raps).

To me this is just another responsibility of the belayer and part of the game on one-pitch routes. Obviously if people don't feel solid rappelling they should just lower, but in my opinion if you're not solid rappelling then you shouldn't be up there in the first place. It's a part of the basic skill set for any style of climbing (OK, except bouldering).

I ALWAYS rap down on every route I do, sport or trad. 99% of the routes in the gorge are single pitch, so if you can't tell when your rope is on the ground, you can give your belayer a shout. I'll admit, I've never tied knots in the ends of my ropes when I rap, but that will change starting this weekend. I learned to clean and rappel down when I first started climbing, and it's really just the best option, period.