climber decks, kills dog?

[stmbtclimber]

An update on the climbers that had the accident at Military Wall, and the dog died... It was my niece and her boyfriend. He broke his ankle, but will be okay. The dog was the best little dog around, a mutt poodle mix, only a few pounds and named "Pepper" She lived a long life and will be greatly missed. The fact that he landed on her, may have prevented him from being more seriously harmed. So we take some solace in that fact. They are both very shaken up from this and I'm not sure how it happened yet. They are experienced climbers, and have climbed at the Gorge for many years. Not some idiots some of you have suggested. I am a mountain guide in Colorado and have been climbing a long time, and was the first to teach my niece how to climb when she was a little girl. I have personally shown her how to use a Gri Gri correctly. As I have not talked to her yet about the details, but have read the posts here, it sounds like she was holding the gri gri open to feed rope, at the wrong time, as he happened to slip and fall trying a difficult move, and didn't alert her to his fall. Regardless, it just goes to show that we all need to be vigilant, especially at a busy area with many distractions. Sometimes at a fun, busy sport climbing spot, it can be a very social scene, and one can easily begin to feel that the climbing is not that dangerous, but it always is, and you must always pay close attention to your climber when on belay.

[drivel]

holding the gri gri open to feed rope, at the wrong time, as he happened to slip and fall trying a difficult move, and didn't alert her to his fall.

if there are any such wrong times in your belay technique, it is wrong/incorrect/unsafe. if you[r niece] can't figure out how to feed slack and have a hand on the brake side simultaneously with the gri gri, you[r niece] should use an ATC to belay.

[Saxman]

it sounds like she was holding the gri gri open to feed rope, at the wrong time, as he happened to slip and fall trying a difficult move, and didn't alert her to his fall.

You are kidding right? She was holding the cam open without using her brake hand? When is this ever ok? You do know there is a way to hold down the cam and feed out slack without releasing your brake hand right? He didn't alert her to his fall? So, every time a foot slips, a hold breaks, a muscle cramps, a bug stings, or something just goes wrong the climber is supposed to know this ahead of time and warn the belayer?

[Saxman]

I am a mountain guide in Colorado and have been climbing a long time, and was the first to teach my niece how to climb when she was a little girl.

You might want to refresh your memory. From the AMGA website:

http://amga.com/images/misc_PDFs/Petzl_ ... poster.pdf

[caribe]

The belayer was holding the gri gri in her right hand with fingers over the cam and said she didn't know how it could have happened. Worse, she said this was the third time it has happened to her.

It's that last part that just knocks this one out of the idiocy park.

Bizarre! The disclaimers put out there are just plain stupid.

[paulcorsaro]

So the climber is responsible to let the belayer know when he/she falls? That's funny, i was under the impression that as a belayer, you keep your eyes on the climber at all times, in case the climber falls without warning, which tends to happen pretty often in this sport.

Glad to hear the climber is ok though. My condolences for the dog, and heres to a speedy recovery of the climber. It could have been much, much worse. Learn from it, and move on. This ain't the gym.

[michaelarmand]

I am a mountain guide in Colorado and have been climbing a long time, and was the first to teach my niece how to climb when she was a little girl.

You might want to refresh your memory. From the AMGA website:

http://amga.com/images/misc_PDFs/Petzl_ ... poster.pdf

Lets not make this personal, but I do want to learn from this. I have never seen anybody use the technique shown here by Petzl. I'll give it a try tomorrow at the gym.

Right or wrong - most everybody using a gri-gri takes their hand off the brake to feed slack. I can use a gri-gri just like an ATC to slowly feed out rope. I can also loop a few feet of rope and hold the cam with my thumb while keeping my index fingers on the rope - I can feed a few feet quickly this way. But when my climber needs a lot of slack to clip quickly - I take my hand off the brake - BRIEFLY. More importantly, my thumb is only on the cam for the half second in which I am yanking rope out. I am open minded to there being a better way - but lets not claim this method caused this accident. The only way a climber is decking from 50 feet is if you death grip the cam.

"Paying attention to your climber" is nice - but not always possible. I've been on many rock and ice climbs where you can neither hear nor see your climber. The basis of belaying is paying attention to where your hands are, period.

[paulcorsaro]

Paying attention to your climber is possible on reliquary.

[DHB]

I take my hand off the brake - BRIEFLY.

Well, I'd hate to say it, but that's really foolish.

As a climber, I would be very pissed if I knew my belayer was compromising my safety just so I could make a "fast clip." I use the method petzl recommends and rarely do I meet a situation where I can't feed slack out fast enough. If I'm too slow, my climber just has to wait another split second so I can throw out an extra handful. And maybe next time I'll move my arms a little faster.

[IDratherCLIMB]

From a person who was there and witnessed it.

If By witnessed you mean fleeing the scene so fast you left a trail of smoke behind you glancing over your shoulder just long enough to capture a mental image of something you can blog about? Then yes you were.

SAXMAN Worse, she said this was the third time it has happened to her.

100% erroneous. I asked her, It was definitely the first time something like this has happened to her. Seriously dude, a lot of people read these threads, you really need to get your facts straight before you post responses. Especially because now the victims know about this thread and have read all the absurd juvenile comments about the accident that it has made it that much harder to cope with their loss. Seeing as you have near 3000 posts I am sure there are many examples like this in your history. While you were on here pointing fingers, they were thanking God that it was not one of the children.

Maybe at Rocktoberfest we can have an "educational" distracted belaying contest.

Agreed, safety has been neglected and cannot be stressed enough. But the Mike Tucker incident (may he rest in peace) clearly shows that even the most experienced belayer and climber are still subjected to the same risk of accident as a gumby. I can confirm that the climber and belayer were both experienced with the Gri Gri device and it looks as though some of the people in this cyber climbing gossip trash talking orgy have put themselves on a pedestal because they have not had a tragedy happen to them so they feel they can thumb their noses at the unlucky ones.

Those of you who have name called and speculated should be ashamed of yourselves as the same people who they have sought comfort from; (you all) have stabbed your fellow climbers in the back by turning this tragedy into a name calling finger pointing cluster@#$%,.

RASTAMAN: I can confirm your account. The gri gri was loaded properly. Whether or not her hand was on the cam would have only been part of the problem. You can never pin the blame of an accident on one person. It is a SERIES of mistakes and decisions that lead to a disaster.

Why do people trust any buffoon to belay them? Why do people who don't know how to belay insist on belaying in spite of their ignorance?

It's interesting how later in your post you contradict yourself by suggesting to be constructive towards others. In addition, it is also interesting how someone, no matter how much experience they have or lack thereof makes one mistake and automatically makes them a buffoon.

It's that last part that just knocks this one out of the idiocy park

Righto bucko. I am impressed by your vast 'constructive' vocabulary.

Maybe his name was Spot?

Wrong. Circle gets the square. Her name was pepper, but feel free to make fun of them, they're only our fellow climbers.

That is even worse than a complete gumby because they think that their strength implies some knowledge of how to climb safely

That is an interesting perspective. Like Dave Graham famously stated: The smartest climbers are the strongest climbers.

it didn't..the human did.

It is amazing how there were only 4 other people at the crag besides our group and two of them were toddlers, but so many people seem to know what happened. Maybe the mosquitos are posting responses.

the only thing "extraordinary" about this situation is how lucky the climber was to survive or avoid paralysis.

Finally a geniune post. The climber thinks what saved him from a head injury was his head landed on his chaco. This truly was a miracle that he basically walked away.

SAXMAN You might want to refresh your memory. From the AMGA website:

http://amga.com/images/misc_PDFs/Petzl_ ... poster.pdf

Sax... you are an ass hole!

I recently spoke to the climber and his belayer today and they are both ok, Quite shaken up, but ok. The climber sustained a minor fracture of a small bone in his heel. I cannot remember the name of the bone, maybe one of you RRC.com speculators can can fill us in on that. The belayers dog was a shitzu poodle mix and grew up with the belayer since she was a puppy. Loosing a pet is like loosing a sibling. If any of you knew the climbers they are really nice people and definitely do not deserve this negative criticism. Winchester ER sees at least one climbing related injury a week and as many as six so there is more happening than is posted on here. We were just unlucky enough to have a bunch of people who have nothing to talk about play telephone. And this thread pretty well shows what that leads to. So lets not point fingers and focus on uniting as a community to bring our fellow climbers back to their feet and use your experience to help them regain their confidence and us grow to as a community. That is what being constructive is all about. I might not be too positive in this post but if you knew the climbers, you might understand my frustration.