Kill Bill (training for the pain box)

[the lurkist]

This is another approach to training. Someone asked how Bill Ramsey used the treadwall. So I wrote him to find out. He shared this with me and encouraged me to share it on Ray's site.
Excessive? You decide.
So, for your review, the following is an email Bill wrote to me a few days ago. Enjoy.

Hugh,
It's rad you now own a treadwall. Andy Raether also has a Brewer's ledge machine and he has modified it in various ways to make for a better work-out -- I can give you his info. if you want to contact him. Last winter I found a motorized machine on e-bay (the Rock from Ascent) and a bunch of us pooled our funds and bought it. So now I once again have access to a machine and several of us have set it up for training. It is pretty fun, and it will play a big role in the plan outlined below.

Turning to your main quesiton, because it sounds like you guys are into discussing these matters, I'm sending a pretty lengthy reply. I've pasted below what has become affectionately known as the "Kill Bill Workout" (so named by those with whom I've shared it). It is what I used to do while living in South Bend to get ready for the weekend at the Red. It started as a much smaller workout, but as I learned about new things over the years, I added on to what I was already doing rather than changing things. Eventually, it got to be a pretty extensive, especially when I would do it all in one day instead of two days. Now that I'm living in a place where I'm able to climb a lot more on a regular basis, my training strategy has changed somewhat. But as you can see, it includes my treadwall workout. What I did lends itself to lots of variations.

As for what I'm doing now and Mike's influence, it's indeed true that Mike and I debate training matters all the time. He's totally into it and so am I so it's nice having someone around to bounce ideas off of. It's also true that we have some differences in our outlooks, though I'll be the first to admit that he has done a lot more homework than me and has a lot more scientfically-based knowledge (I'm not sure anyone should listen to me, whereas I think people probably should listen to Mike). His perspective is more along the conventional philosophy that goes with mainstream sport-training that involves targeting specific aspects of fitness for a period of time -- i.e., "periodization". I am more of a believer of training everything in one big session. The advantages of Mike's approach is that when you peak, you peak big -- you definitely will have a period during which you will be more fit than with my approach. The disadvantage is that there are also bigger valleys, and it is hard to stick to the regiment of specific training when you just want to go climbing. It is ideal for people who can't climb outdoors for months at a time (like those living in British Columbia!), or who are training for specific competitions. My perspective is to train everything (power, power-endurance, endurance) in each mega-session. The advantage is that you will always be pretty fit and ready for most things. The disadvantage (besides the length of the work-out) is that you won't make as much rapid progress, or get as big a peak, even though you will still make progress in all areas. So some variation on this theme is is the sort of thing we debate. For example, Mike and I often get into it over the degree to which it does or does not help to train beyond a certain point in a single session. In the end, we realize we are probably more in agreement than not, given that what is appropriate depends on the specific situation you are in. If you guys want good input for the blog, I'd encourage you to contact Mike too to get his input. In fact, because I may be misdescribing his position, I'm cc-ing this message to him so he can review and possibly correct it.

Anyhow, this summer I decided to try something different as I was getting burned out. After a little time off after a trip to Rodellar, I wanted to not climb and thought it would be the perfect time to do something more along the lines of what Mike is into. I still think my way works for me, but I was bored and wanted a change. The initial phase involves two seemingly opposing agendas: Very broad-based general fitness, and super-specific, super-focused training. The thinking behind the former is that we need to train antagonist muscles more than we do and build a solid, broad-based foundation of fitness, from which we recruit our climbing-specific fitness. So that involves 6-9 weeks of general weight-training that includes opposition (pushing) muscles, core, and is somewhat injury-prevention-oriented (for example, I'm doing a lot of rotator-cup exercises). But at the same time, I'm also doing really specific hand-strength training, mostly with weighted dead-hangs. The thinking here is that when you just climb or go bouldering, there are so many components involved in doing a hard move that no one element (like say a particular crimp hold) gets taxed 100%. The weakest link in the system is going to be the point of failure, and the other elements aren't maxed out. So it is good to target very specific forms of contact strength in a really focused, controlled way so you can concentrate on maxing just that sort of capacity. For me, this is done by hanging from very specific sorts of holds -- like certain monos or two-fingers or edges or specific sorts of pinches -- to get that really focused, targeted workout. I've been doing what I call the "rule of seven" ( a play on the older-guy dating rule) and this means I add enough weight so I can only hang for about 7 seconds from the hold in question, then I rest for about 70 seconds, 7 times. I've been doing this for the last 8 weeks, and I've really seen improvement in my pure hand-strength, in some cases more than doubling the amount of weight I need to use. I've also being doing some mega-core workouts, which involves lots of crunches, different sorts of leg-lengths, front-lever exercises, etc.

The next phase, which I'm doing now, involves training your body to combine these specific strengths into individual moves. Now that each element (core, contact strength, etc.) has been trained, they need to be re-coordinated. So basically this is bouldering where you focus on hard individual moves. I'm still doing the dead-hanging and the weight-training, though I'm shifting the weight work to more climbing-oriented strengths. Bu the main idea is to boulder to work on power (in the non-technical sense of the term). I am noticing that I am stronger now -- heavier for sure (from bulking up from weight training), but still able to do moves I couldn't do before. On Wednesday I climbed outside for the first time in 8 weeks at Priest Draw and although it was too warm, I was able to do all the moves on a boulder problem that had shut me down in May.

The final phase (next month) will be working on endurance and power-endurance -- doing 4X4s, routes, and long boulder problems. I plan to use the treadwall a lot in this phase in September, doing workouts similar to the ones described in Kill-Bill. I've also got a few power-endurance routes picked out to also start doing roped climbing on again.

So anyhow, the ultimate goal is to get in good enough shape to start working a hard climb up at Potosi in mid-October. I worked it some last year and think I have a shot, but it is going to be a real challenge. I'm hoping the periodized training will pay-off, and some of my training is tailored specifically for this climb (like training monos, and recreated moves).

Anyhow, I hope you find the info. useful. The Kill-Bill workout is pasted below. Feel free to post this or any aspect of this e-mail if you want. And give my best to Diane and convince to come out for a visit some time!

Cheers,

Bill

KILL-BILL WORKOUT -- 2002:

I usually try to do power Tuesday nights and endurance on Wednesdays, though I've also done it all in one mega-day. I would prefer to get a rest day in between, but I usually want 2 days off before the weekend, so I don't want to train on Thursday. One important tip regarding the length of the workout -- most people don't train long enough because their skin doesn't hold out. I've found my skin lasts twice as long on plastic if it is much cooler and I have good "fan support" -- I even take an industrial strength fan into the gym with me since the gyms never seem to provide adequate air movement. Air movement and coldness makes a big difference in how long you can train, so it is important to do whatever you can to enhance these. I start out with weighted pull-ups on a home-made finger-board. I prefer a home-made one because it is less corrosive and has a friendlier radius on the edges. I screwed the small Metolious campus rung upside down onto a 2 x 6 x 24 board. I sanded the radius off a little more to make it more comfortable, and I also glued the finest possible sandpaper (like 180) onto the rung for some added friction. I also occasionally glue small emory boards onto the main frame, right above the edge, to make the edge increasingly smaller as I start getting stronger (right now there are 3 emory boards there). I also screwed on a dowel that is about 2" thick above the edge, for more open-handed and two-finger stuff, and a much more slopey hold above that. Also, for what its worth, the campus edges are cut into into blocks about 6" long so if I want I can use my thumb on the sides. This probably takes a little away from the finger training, but I think it helps get my thumbs stronger. Lately I've been avoiding using the thumb, but I can mix it up. I also have a variety of different width edges in the middle that I can work one-arm dead-hangs on -- it is easy to screw on a block of wood and then add wood behind to change the size of the hold. OK, so after doing some warm-up pull-ups on the small edge (like going up to 40 or so), and some one-arm dead-hangs (aiming for about 5 seconds on a one-pad edge), I begin by hanging weights off my harness and do a pyramid up to about 7 or 8, alternating between the edge, the two-finger dowel, and sloper. When I'm really fit, I can do this with about 65-70 lbs. hanging off of my harness, but that takes a lot of building up to. I do one pull-up on the edge, then two pull-ups off the sloper, then 3 pull-ups off the 2-finger, 4 off the edge again, and so on. You can mix up this combo. in various ways. Like if you want to work your edge strength more, then come back to the edge every other time. Anyhow, I do this up to about 8, then I take about a 10-minute breather, and come back down the pyramid, usually failing on the last one each time. After another rest, I would sometimes do weighted dead-hangs (20 seconds on, 20 off, maybe with 40 lbs) or dead hangs without weight (maybe 40 on, 45 off) again alternating between the edge and rung. You can experiment with the amount of weight and time -- probably good to mix it up. One thing I've learned is that when hanging it is a good idea to bend your elbows a little to prevent hurting your elbows. If I'm fresh, this initial phase serves as a good warm-up so that when I move on to the more risky stuff, I'm much less likely to hurt myself in the less controlled setting. People always say pull-ups are stupid for climbers, but I think it is good to train the core movement associated with our sport (boxers do push-ups all day long). After this, I rest about 20 minutes and then do system training. I have 2 rows of Pusher deluxe system panels, 4 on each side -- the rows are about 2 1/2 feet apart, and each panel is about 2 feet above the other. My system wall is something like 45 degrees -- steeper than most, and has alternative-sized foot-holds, depending on how strong I feel. I also wear about a 10 or 15 lbs. weight belt or weight vest (the belt can be made by putting together two heavy ankle-belts). You can start with much lower weight and work up, but I think the belt is good because it simulates wearing a harness in terms of breathing, simulates rope drag, and helps develop core strength. By adding weight, it also enables you to gradually increase the difficulty of problems and circuits as you start to get them wired. On the system wall, I start out doing mono stuff, leading with one hand and then the other. I then experiment around using different sorts of holds -- two-finger pocket, shallow three finger, pinches, etc. Only on the two-finger pockets do I do the classic system work-out -- i.e., lock-off one arm fully bent, the hold right at your face, rocked over on to a high-step on the opposite foot , count to 4, and then grab the same sort of hold on the other side with the other arm, fully extended, count to 4, again with the opposite foot on, repeat as you move up, doing a set leading with each arm. I used to find that if I do much more locking off than this, my elbows star to hurt, but I suspect I should do more. This is good for core strength and for pure power. UsualIy, I can barely hold the last one. I think there is a lot of room for experimenting in the system training, but I do think it has helped me with specific types of holds, and also developing body tension and lock-off strength. Finally, on my system wall I end by going up the slopers where I let my feet swing off and then have to put them back on each time I move up. This also seems to help with body tension, besides sloper strength. After another 20 minute rest or so after the system training, I start to boulder. I warm up with easier problems I have dialed, then move on to tougher stuff. I find I can still do wired short (5 move) power problems even when I'm pretty tired, but I can't do the harder longer link-up problems (25 move), so I often do the link-up stuff first. A lot of people would say this is ass-backwards -- esperiment with your own strategy. I try to alternate different types of holds, and work in some crimpy stuff while my skin is still pretty good. This lasts for about 2 or 3 hours, depending on how much rest I'm taking between goes. Almost all of it is on my 45 and my 55 degree walls. I probably do less pure power stuff than I should, and more link-up stuff than I should, but I am more of route climber than a boulderer. I guess the only other thing I've noticed is that the crimpy stuff I do transfers well outside, the typical gym slopey stuff I'm not good at does not. Also, I try to include shaking holds in my link-ups, or maybe I'll do a lap on a problem and downclimb on larger holds to do another lap on a different problem. I've experimented with 4 X 4's, and I think that is a good way to train power-endurance, but not as good as doing a longish problem with some shake-out spots (every time you jump down doing a 4 X 4, you are resting your core in a way that you can't on a long steep route). Anyhow, after a bunch of bouldering, I then go to the campus board. I used to campus early in the work-out, but the sort of campusing I do now so completely destroys me that I save it for the end of the work-out. I used to do the two-handed double-dyno stuff, skipping rungs while moving up and down, but it really doesn't seem to do all that much for me now (I didn't do it for 2 years, and then tried it and was actually stronger at it than when I stopped -- I think it may be good for initial recruitment, but once the fibers are recruited, they get maintained with normal stuff). Anyhow, now I just start on the first rung, launch to rung 4 with right hand, and go to rung 7 with left and then match on 7 and jump down. I used to climb down like Ben Moon in "One Summer", but it started to wreck havoc on my shoulders. Anyhow, I repeat, only now going to 4 with the left, etc. I then go 1, 4, 6; 1, 4, 6; 1, 4, 5; 1, 4, 5 and so on, gradually failing more and more, jumping down after each go and not resting between burns, except to occasionally chalk up. Eventually I'm trying to go 1, 2, and not making it. Then I put my feet on something like a ladder or a wall, and go up and down again, trying to completely destroy any ability to hang on. I really don't know about this last work-out, since many people frown on going so far and reject the idea that it does anying, going so many times to total failure like this. I'm no expert, but I do think it has helped -- who knows? My sentiment is that in climbing we go to failure all the time, and expect to recover, and this is the only thing I've done that really seems to replicate that in a controlled environment. Finally, now just to completely make myself wasted, I do some endurance traversing with more weight, and I typically don't last long. During this final phase, I'll try to traverse to a semi-positive slopey shake hold, do a bunch of pull-ups with my feet on, and when I feel like my hands are opening up, I try to shake out and get most of it back. Here I'm trying to replicate what happens when you are pumped stupid and barely make it to a rest, and then you fight to recover enough to finish a route.

That's it for Tuesday night. Wednesday, I get up and stretch, take about 5 Advil and 5 Aleve and head off for the Rock and Roll Machine. Despite the typical attitudes of most climbers, I think this is by far the most beneficial training device ever invented for route climbing. It is so good because you can simulate doing hard routes, and when you get something wired you can start tipping the angle back a couple of degrees every week until it is really sick. The main thing to include in the machine work-outs is, again, training rests -- putting OK holds near the stop button for shaking out, which most climbers don't train enough of. The routes are marked with tape just like in the gym, only most of them involve any feet. This work-out usually lasts around 4 hours, though I've done it for 7. I have to rest more because I'm not bouldering so much as doing routes, so I take my lap-top, reading material or papers to grade. So one of my "routes" may be, say, blue-taped holds for first full rotation, green-taped holds second rotation, stop machine while chilling on OK rest holds, try to recover, then do yellow holds back into blue or something like that. The main thing is you get used to climbing with a really bad pump in a totally controlled environment (even more so that leading in the gym), and you also learn how to recover. I think on the R&R machine, each rotation is about 20 feet of climbing, so three rotations is like a real power-endurance route. Typically, I'm spending 7 or 8 minutes trying to do one of these, depending on how many shakes and how long I stay at them. I've also done pyramids where I would do three rotations of a problem at an easy angle, rest on holds, then make it steeper (you can do this without getting off the wall) and do two rotations on the same probelm, rest, then make it steeper and do one rotation, then reverse. You can play around and develop different types of regiments, but when setting things up it is important to not put on holds that are too big, too sharp, or two slopey. A perfectly good training route would be mostly smaller comfortable edges and side pulls, with a few underclings and pockets, and a couple of really long reaches or dead-points. You need to experiment with the speed -- I think; as you get the route more wired, you can go faster. In fact, the machine is good for making us climb faster, which I often need to work on. I finish off the work-out with it set at an easy angle, using any holds, and see how long I can stay on -- usually I'm failing sooner than I would like. Try to have a fan blowing on you while climbing, don't forget the weight belt, but you can also wear your I-pod which is nice. I rest around 30 minutes between each "route". Also, once you get enough holds on, another good training thing is to do the laser-pointer thing with a friend. You tend to push pretty hard in this, but you need someone who can take you down to where you are about to fall, and then bring you back on larger holds - ideally doing this more than once; also it helps to have someone stop the machine so you can shake out on different types of rest holds. With good people pointing, I can get completely destroyed with this because the pointer is taking you really close to failure, and then allowing you to fight back and recover. That makes for an awesome workout. As a side note, it is a commentary on the lack of training imagination of many climbers that they dismiss the value of such a device. When I was in the Spot in Boulder one time, absolutely no one besides myself and Julia Warwick were climbing on the machine, yet tons of people were lined up to get on the slack-line.

So after all this, I do some weight work-outs. This includes pull-downs for the tri-cepts to avoid tendonitis and maybe lat. pulls for pure power. Finally, the last thing I do is the Ivanko spring-loaded squeezer several times. I set it so I can just barely move a crimp inwards about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. This requires some experimenting to hold it right, but ideally you are training the sort of strengh involved in hitting a crimp open-handed, and reeling it into a regular crimp. I do about 3 sets of around 35 rep.s each. You can also experiment and train pocket strength, mono strength, and, of course, pinch strength. I never use it in the normal sqeezing mode, because that doesn't translate well to climbing. I do this at the end because it is the one thing I can do when my skin is totally trashed that doesn't still hurt.

That's more or less the "Kill-Bill" Work-Out. It has taken me a few years to get to where I can do all of it (though I'm an old geezer); you might just start out with a few components (say, system train, boulder, and treadwall) and gradually add on other components (or switch out other components during alternative weeks). Or, you could do a really moderate form of each component at first, and gradually add more volume as your body adapts. Also, I sometimes vary the sequence of components, just so I can do some things when I'm less fatigued to see how they feel (and vice versa). Do let me know what you think!!!

(PS: if you want more on the psychology of training, I'm happy to send along the "pain-box" motivational essay!)

[robert birchell]

Yikes!
More power to him.

[One-Fall]

So that's what 14c looks like . . .

HUGH, can you please get the "Pain Box Motivational Essay" from Bill. Id like to read what he calls the psychology of training.

[512OW]

Haha... wow. For me, it all hinges on what Bill admits to in the beginning of his reply... that with Mike's approach, you have big valleys, but when you peak, you peak big. Since most of us climb in the Red, we have inevitable valleys... big ones... called Summer and Winter. Why not take advantage of those?

[SCIN]

Thanks for sharing Bill and Hugh. I had to read two things over because I thought I was seeing things. The first...did he say 5 Advil AND 5 Aleve or did he say 5 Advil OR 5 Aleve!! The second.....did he really just say his Tuesday workout can last 7 hours sometimes!!

Arnold used to do what he called supersets in the gym while the other meatheads were doing the traditional grouped sets (first back, then biceps, etc.). Bill's workout reminds me of the Arnold supersets and Arnold was the best bodybuilder in history.

[pigsteak]

sweetness.....between ray, OW, and Bill, and of us sallies not climbing at our maximum really just don't want to get better. it really is that simple.

[robert birchell]

Bill states that he is a "old geezer".
Anyone know how old he is?

[the lurkist]

He was 42 when he was using this routine. He just had his 50 bday party.

[bcombs]

Fantastic. Thanks much for posting this!

[512OW]

Another thing Bill says, is that most people do not do enough training of shaking out. I've preached this for years, and time and time again I've had people respond, "I know how to recover". I consistently see those same people fall right off what I find is a good rest.