My new bouldering video is out
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anticlmber
- Posts: 3393
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:34 am
By wearing gloves and then moving your hand down to the brake position.anticlmber wrote:once the rope starts moving how do you intend to stop it on an atc?
also, brake is down, period.
I know brake is down, but some people might not put it down all the way until they are sure that the belay is dynamic enough. Have you ever seen how you can vary the amount of braking with a munter hitch, it's sort of like that.
Basically the point of what I read is to not partially brake for long periods of time(I think it was over 3 seconds) I'm still looking for this topic in my books so I can quote and site it.
Well KD liked the Cash Machine song. I have listened to that mp3 so many times I thought it was a popular song, but I found out the music video for it on youtube only has 5000 views.anticlmber wrote:at least the knapsack song you used in the first video is good
Last edited by Redpoint on Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is difficult to estimate the potential damage of solvents; therefore the middle of the rope should never be marked with a felt-tip pen or similar. Although a danger might be improbable, it should never be ignored." Mammut
This kind of shite makes me wish there were a belay test to climb outside. You shouldn't take it personally, RP, we just don't want to see you (or your bear friend) get hurt.
In answer to your original dumb question, yes sometimes I will back a couple meters away from the wall to facilitate a softer catch when belaying my wife, who weighs 50 lbs less than me. But that does not mean I "run towards the wall" as you so egregiously put it. It all depends on what the terrain is like around the route's base. As for the rest of the shit you are saying---just plain frightening, dude. Precisely the reason every climber has to be excruciatingly careful when choosing a belayer!
In answer to your original dumb question, yes sometimes I will back a couple meters away from the wall to facilitate a softer catch when belaying my wife, who weighs 50 lbs less than me. But that does not mean I "run towards the wall" as you so egregiously put it. It all depends on what the terrain is like around the route's base. As for the rest of the shit you are saying---just plain frightening, dude. Precisely the reason every climber has to be excruciatingly careful when choosing a belayer!
Ya I didn't really mean a running belay, like you just run forward. You are trying to slow down the person the whole time, I guess I said running because the person is being pulled forward so fast that it appears that he's running.
O I got more stories:
Everyone preaches "experienced". You could be climbing for 10 years strait and still being doing all sorts of things wrong just because you don't know any better. You could even be a certified guide and get a little too cocky, lets look at two examples:
1. I saw a old guy at practice wall with what looked like a Mammut Supersafe rope and so I started talking to him about it. He liked my rope bag that the rope came with, and then I brought up how I also bought a big tarp at walmart and cut it in hlaf for a rope pad since some old guy on EMS.com recommended the idea. He said he has never once pulled a rope and it landed on the rope bags small 3X3 foot tarp, and so he went with the tarp setup I just mentioned. I look down and notice his rope is just laying there in a pile of dusty dirt, no tarp what so ever. Then he checks out my rope and says "ya mine isn't the same as yours" which I could tell because his bi-pattern rope wasn't the same as any Mammut Supersafe I've ever seen. He goes on "ya I have been using this rope for over 10 years now". I thought this was pretty rediculous considering the manufacturer of his rope says to retire it after 10 years even if you have never even taken a lead fall on it because of UV damage alone.
2. So I know of this guide who says him and his other guide friends don't believe in double overhand/fishermans knots. The quote going around is this "if you tie the knot right you don't need a stopper knot". Well sometimes experience is king, like the team of old guys who wrote Onrope1. Not only do they say to use a double overhand knot as a stopper knot, they also explain that the closer the fishermans knot is to the figure eight, the safer it is. Even Rocksport makes you sign a waver that says you will promise to at least tie a single overhand knot as a stopper knot. Sure Chris Sharma uses the Yosemite finish, and he's still alive. At least his knot makes sure there is some extra tail to prevent the knot from rolling off the tail, and the tail is being pinched which would also help prevent that from happening. I am no expert, but the experts who wrote the above mentioned book recommend one, and so I'm going to use one myself, why not be as safe as possible?
O I got more stories:
Everyone preaches "experienced". You could be climbing for 10 years strait and still being doing all sorts of things wrong just because you don't know any better. You could even be a certified guide and get a little too cocky, lets look at two examples:
1. I saw a old guy at practice wall with what looked like a Mammut Supersafe rope and so I started talking to him about it. He liked my rope bag that the rope came with, and then I brought up how I also bought a big tarp at walmart and cut it in hlaf for a rope pad since some old guy on EMS.com recommended the idea. He said he has never once pulled a rope and it landed on the rope bags small 3X3 foot tarp, and so he went with the tarp setup I just mentioned. I look down and notice his rope is just laying there in a pile of dusty dirt, no tarp what so ever. Then he checks out my rope and says "ya mine isn't the same as yours" which I could tell because his bi-pattern rope wasn't the same as any Mammut Supersafe I've ever seen. He goes on "ya I have been using this rope for over 10 years now". I thought this was pretty rediculous considering the manufacturer of his rope says to retire it after 10 years even if you have never even taken a lead fall on it because of UV damage alone.
2. So I know of this guide who says him and his other guide friends don't believe in double overhand/fishermans knots. The quote going around is this "if you tie the knot right you don't need a stopper knot". Well sometimes experience is king, like the team of old guys who wrote Onrope1. Not only do they say to use a double overhand knot as a stopper knot, they also explain that the closer the fishermans knot is to the figure eight, the safer it is. Even Rocksport makes you sign a waver that says you will promise to at least tie a single overhand knot as a stopper knot. Sure Chris Sharma uses the Yosemite finish, and he's still alive. At least his knot makes sure there is some extra tail to prevent the knot from rolling off the tail, and the tail is being pinched which would also help prevent that from happening. I am no expert, but the experts who wrote the above mentioned book recommend one, and so I'm going to use one myself, why not be as safe as possible?
Last edited by Redpoint on Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"It is difficult to estimate the potential damage of solvents; therefore the middle of the rope should never be marked with a felt-tip pen or similar. Although a danger might be improbable, it should never be ignored." Mammut
Well, despite the aggressive tone of all of this advice, it is still good info. It's backed by, from what I imagine, is lengthy and diverse experience. Don't catch a fall by letting the rope slip through the ATC, ever, period. Doesn't matter what any book says about that--if you need to read it in a book, then you have no business putting such a tactic to use. I wouldn't touch that shit with a ten foot pole, let alone risk my life on it.
But listen up, folks: most people actually do learn to belay properly while climbing outside. That's what this guy is doing. Only, he's kind enough to fill all of us in on how he's doing--giving us a unique look at what THOUSANDS of other climbers go through at the red every year. Pretty valuable, in fact. Open up your eyes, people.
(Yes, yes, I can already hear what some are going to reply to that... and I don't care). Learning in a gym will only take you so far. (leg doesn't go behind rope, don't back-clip, clip @ waist level, and whatnot) Belay-instructors will only teach you so much...in fact, I've taken lead-belay gym tests from people that I wouldn't hesitate to call inexperienced and even dangerous.
Tell me that you didn't learn most of what you know outside, and I will call you either a) a liar... or b) inexperienced
But listen up, folks: most people actually do learn to belay properly while climbing outside. That's what this guy is doing. Only, he's kind enough to fill all of us in on how he's doing--giving us a unique look at what THOUSANDS of other climbers go through at the red every year. Pretty valuable, in fact. Open up your eyes, people.
(Yes, yes, I can already hear what some are going to reply to that... and I don't care). Learning in a gym will only take you so far. (leg doesn't go behind rope, don't back-clip, clip @ waist level, and whatnot) Belay-instructors will only teach you so much...in fact, I've taken lead-belay gym tests from people that I wouldn't hesitate to call inexperienced and even dangerous.
Tell me that you didn't learn most of what you know outside, and I will call you either a) a liar... or b) inexperienced
When I watch videos of people climbing super overhung routes in the Red and they take 40 foot wippers even though the last bolt is 5 feet below them, I always imagined it's from letting the rope slip through the ATC, and they just let it go on long enough so the climber never even ends up hitting the wall.
Ya countless books consider it as a proper dynamic belay method, but I would never want anything to do with it. My book also mentions the biggest problem with the Gri is that it can(can as in with a static belay) shockload your gear more heavily than an ATC. But now that the ATC has a V groove in it, it can hold just about as much force as a Gri. I just read an article that said they tested the Gri at 1000 pounds before the rope started slipping, and a ATC at 900 pounds before it started slipping. Like I said earlier, a fall that generates 2000 pounds on the bolt will only generate about 700 at the belayer, which isn't enough to help provide a softer catch with the latest ATC anyhow. I imagine the whole letting rope slip through the ATC dynamic braking method probably arose from belaying at the second or higher pitch of a climb where a normal dynamic belay would either be insufficient for some reason, or dangerous because of a roof being over your head.
Ya countless books consider it as a proper dynamic belay method, but I would never want anything to do with it. My book also mentions the biggest problem with the Gri is that it can(can as in with a static belay) shockload your gear more heavily than an ATC. But now that the ATC has a V groove in it, it can hold just about as much force as a Gri. I just read an article that said they tested the Gri at 1000 pounds before the rope started slipping, and a ATC at 900 pounds before it started slipping. Like I said earlier, a fall that generates 2000 pounds on the bolt will only generate about 700 at the belayer, which isn't enough to help provide a softer catch with the latest ATC anyhow. I imagine the whole letting rope slip through the ATC dynamic braking method probably arose from belaying at the second or higher pitch of a climb where a normal dynamic belay would either be insufficient for some reason, or dangerous because of a roof being over your head.
"It is difficult to estimate the potential damage of solvents; therefore the middle of the rope should never be marked with a felt-tip pen or similar. Although a danger might be improbable, it should never be ignored." Mammut
no.. gravity, rope stretch, and a well-timed hop do that.Redpoint wrote:When I watch videos of people climbing super overhung routes in the Red and they take 40 foot wippers even though the last bolt is 5 feet below them, I always imagined it's from letting the rope slip through the ATC, and they just let it go on long enough so the climber never even ends up hitting the wall.
or if your belayer weighs a lot less, then gravity does a fine job itself.
and dramatic screams help, according to every video i've seen as well
40 foot whippers...who is pulling your leg..climbers here scream like little sallies whenfalling 10 feet...
that being said, a loop hanging on the ground at the Lode while spraying about your proj and not watching your climber will also do the trick...smoke your pole, let the gri gri catch em...all's good...brah.
that being said, a loop hanging on the ground at the Lode while spraying about your proj and not watching your climber will also do the trick...smoke your pole, let the gri gri catch em...all's good...brah.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
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cliftongifford
- Posts: 649
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