Southern Region
This is getting stupid and, though using J.H. as a "whipping boy" because he DID something in the Southern Region might seem on topic, it's not. Pigsteak, J.H. did apologize for his actions and not checking with anyone first. I mean, christ people, mistakes made, lessons learned, move on already. Focus on not repeating, instead of dwelling. As far as the current situation goes and trying to "send a message" to whomever the culprit is, with all of 500+ ppl on this board and several thousand that climb in the Red at large, the odds are pretty good that said person won't ever READ all this.
You said it yourself, Pigsteak, that "climbers" in general are really no different than any cross-section of the population (as much as many of them like to THINK they are). Trash is left, areas are defaced, egos abound, unleashed and poorly trained dogs bite people or get into things they're not supposed to, children run rampant (think of malls) and inconsiderate groups take over areas like a swarm of locusts...the list goes on, just pick a human behavior.
I give my regards to the RRGCC and best wishes in their endeavors to resolve the conflict.
All this talk about Breakfast Burrito in another thread has me really wanting to get on it, now.
You said it yourself, Pigsteak, that "climbers" in general are really no different than any cross-section of the population (as much as many of them like to THINK they are). Trash is left, areas are defaced, egos abound, unleashed and poorly trained dogs bite people or get into things they're not supposed to, children run rampant (think of malls) and inconsiderate groups take over areas like a swarm of locusts...the list goes on, just pick a human behavior.
I give my regards to the RRGCC and best wishes in their endeavors to resolve the conflict.
All this talk about Breakfast Burrito in another thread has me really wanting to get on it, now.
Last edited by Rain Man on Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."
D. H. Lawrence
D. H. Lawrence
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Guest
You wanted some facts? Well, here you go…
The facts have been long lost in this thread, but I will provide what I know for a fact:
1. RRGCC is working on the technicality of the signs posted. Until then, we should again, just relax and avoid the area all together – just to show we “sometimes” respect land owners’ wishes (even though the Murray have NOT placed the signs themselves; the fact that I am refering to is that we do not respects "signs" in general & that we should avoid the area for now)
2. After speaking to one of the personnel on duty last Sat, the picture becomes a little clearer: There was in fact the “one incident” of a climber giving an attitude to one of the workers (after being asked to move his truck), and that was partially the reason for the “no trespass” signs going up BUT that was not the only reason.
3. There was the attitude (from the climber to the worker), there was the incident of the bridge, there was the spray painting of a tree that belonged on a private property, and there were the 100’s of cars parked less than 4 inches from work-stations. This is all accumulation, and if we just put ourselves in their shoes, we probably would be pretty upset at climbers right about now [as well].
4. I too have seen the numerous cars parked near work stations: their plates dictate that most were KY, but there were others too so the finger cannot and shouldn’t be pin-pointed to a single individual painting trees (though that was a stupid thing to do too).
5. Workers at the Murray property work 7 days a week. Give them a break, and as mentioned earlier on this thread, stay calm and respectful because we will be working with them for a long time. If they are having a bad day, grab your diplomatic “talk”, and again stay calm because it could very well be that they are having a tough day working on a Sunday...
6. It was specifically said (by Brandon) that we CAN access the walls at the property to climb, but on FOOT only. Having said that, please be sensitive, because there is absolutely no place to park anywhere, not on top (past the no-trespassing signs) and not below anywhere. There will be no place to park to access the walls – period! So unless you are parking 1.8 miles (on 498 or something) and intend to walk more than 2 miles, then stay out of the place for just a little while longer. This might be the time to try different crags – again, just for a little while. I will repeat, because I don’t want anyone to take this the wrong way: Tell your friends to completely stay away until further notice – and say it in a nice way. There is no need to yell, or bitch-slap anyone here....
7. We should consider having someone (preferably RRGCC or Climbers Advisory Council) keeping the peace this weekend and to tell all other climbers to stay away – in a nice manner. It could also be the perfect opportunity to explain what is going on, and the steps taken by the Coalition to purchase the property, and the help that is still needed from all climbers. (No bashing here, but) Relying solely on this web site and / or on a posting at Miguel’s to keep climbers / parked cars away could be cutting ourselves short.
8. Having climbers climb (park) at the Murray Property while the “no trespassing” signs are still up would indicate (once again) that climbers do not respect laws and regulations, and would do nothing more than harm us further.
9. Blaming someone (a single person) is not going to solve anything, and while I will agree that any schmuck should know better than parking near a work station, painting a tree, breaking a bridge, or giving an attitude to “any one person” at a crag, schmucks will continue to be amongst us.
10. The priorities should be to prevent aggravation, keep the peace, obtain access, gain access, retain access… and that is through education, not head-bashing, or “talking smack”.
11. In short, we ought to get our pump somewhere else (for the time being) and until RRGCC works in the background to (once again) bring the needs of climbers.
The facts have been long lost in this thread, but I will provide what I know for a fact:
1. RRGCC is working on the technicality of the signs posted. Until then, we should again, just relax and avoid the area all together – just to show we “sometimes” respect land owners’ wishes (even though the Murray have NOT placed the signs themselves; the fact that I am refering to is that we do not respects "signs" in general & that we should avoid the area for now)
2. After speaking to one of the personnel on duty last Sat, the picture becomes a little clearer: There was in fact the “one incident” of a climber giving an attitude to one of the workers (after being asked to move his truck), and that was partially the reason for the “no trespass” signs going up BUT that was not the only reason.
3. There was the attitude (from the climber to the worker), there was the incident of the bridge, there was the spray painting of a tree that belonged on a private property, and there were the 100’s of cars parked less than 4 inches from work-stations. This is all accumulation, and if we just put ourselves in their shoes, we probably would be pretty upset at climbers right about now [as well].
4. I too have seen the numerous cars parked near work stations: their plates dictate that most were KY, but there were others too so the finger cannot and shouldn’t be pin-pointed to a single individual painting trees (though that was a stupid thing to do too).
5. Workers at the Murray property work 7 days a week. Give them a break, and as mentioned earlier on this thread, stay calm and respectful because we will be working with them for a long time. If they are having a bad day, grab your diplomatic “talk”, and again stay calm because it could very well be that they are having a tough day working on a Sunday...
6. It was specifically said (by Brandon) that we CAN access the walls at the property to climb, but on FOOT only. Having said that, please be sensitive, because there is absolutely no place to park anywhere, not on top (past the no-trespassing signs) and not below anywhere. There will be no place to park to access the walls – period! So unless you are parking 1.8 miles (on 498 or something) and intend to walk more than 2 miles, then stay out of the place for just a little while longer. This might be the time to try different crags – again, just for a little while. I will repeat, because I don’t want anyone to take this the wrong way: Tell your friends to completely stay away until further notice – and say it in a nice way. There is no need to yell, or bitch-slap anyone here....
7. We should consider having someone (preferably RRGCC or Climbers Advisory Council) keeping the peace this weekend and to tell all other climbers to stay away – in a nice manner. It could also be the perfect opportunity to explain what is going on, and the steps taken by the Coalition to purchase the property, and the help that is still needed from all climbers. (No bashing here, but) Relying solely on this web site and / or on a posting at Miguel’s to keep climbers / parked cars away could be cutting ourselves short.
8. Having climbers climb (park) at the Murray Property while the “no trespassing” signs are still up would indicate (once again) that climbers do not respect laws and regulations, and would do nothing more than harm us further.
9. Blaming someone (a single person) is not going to solve anything, and while I will agree that any schmuck should know better than parking near a work station, painting a tree, breaking a bridge, or giving an attitude to “any one person” at a crag, schmucks will continue to be amongst us.
10. The priorities should be to prevent aggravation, keep the peace, obtain access, gain access, retain access… and that is through education, not head-bashing, or “talking smack”.
11. In short, we ought to get our pump somewhere else (for the time being) and until RRGCC works in the background to (once again) bring the needs of climbers.
Last edited by vic on Fri Sep 12, 2003 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
read back to where this small dilemma with JH started (between us)..you will see in my inital post I did not call him out by name. I asked a general question. Nest thing I know it is "fuck you..and let your mama suck me"...I thought it quite hypocritical to have talk of lynching the current bad boy of the southern region, without some comment on what was done to the prior bad boy of the southern region (jh).
perhaps that is my point. JH was "schooled" in the error of painting trees. The hothead who got in a confrontation with the driller should be made known of his stupid actions, and also we move on.
BTW, here's your "beta" JH (Darkside, maybe 12a, poorly bolted (wrong size))
perhaps that is my point. JH was "schooled" in the error of painting trees. The hothead who got in a confrontation with the driller should be made known of his stupid actions, and also we move on.
BTW, here's your "beta" JH (Darkside, maybe 12a, poorly bolted (wrong size))
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
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Guest
Accumulation is the key here. So, let's put a stop to "problem accumulation". We have a problem, let's think about how to solve it rather then think about the next tree to paint.
BTW: I spoke to Brandon in front of 3 other witnesses. They all heard the same thing I mentioned above, and the tree painting did come up, so give it a rest already.
BTW: I spoke to Brandon in front of 3 other witnesses. They all heard the same thing I mentioned above, and the tree painting did come up, so give it a rest already.
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Smile & be thankful for what you have.