even an altruistic human puts him/herself first. don't believe me? go cut out your liver and feed it to a starving pig. cuz pigs get hungry, too.
Green Climbing
any organism that has a chance to pass on its genes is inherently selfish... and, yes, so are you. no matter how altruistic you think you are, it's ultimately about you passing on your genes (even if not at the conscious level). don't believe me? then you may as well spit in the faces of your thousands of dead ancestors that clawed their way through other organisms to pass on their (your) genes.
even an altruistic human puts him/herself first. don't believe me? go cut out your liver and feed it to a starving pig. cuz pigs get hungry, too.
even an altruistic human puts him/herself first. don't believe me? go cut out your liver and feed it to a starving pig. cuz pigs get hungry, too.
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anticlmber
- Posts: 3393
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:34 am
sure because i know that all of that stuff is fleeting. life, friends, loved ones, and the whole shibang.
to give my life, or at least a week of it each time, for helping others would be fine with me. to know that the world i leave may/may not be better but that i TRIED would be all the warm fussy i need. i think the question is, if you were never congratulated, thanked, had a shrine built to you, etc. would you continue to do it knowing that nobody knew or cared.
almost all of you go to a job that you probably don't like, work with some folks you could care less about, and the majority of you will never be compensated or thanked for your duty but you still show up and for what?? a paycheck.
so why is it crazy to think that there are people out there doing what they LOVE and BELIEVE in for free and many at the cost of their own life. its not about being a martyr, its about being a human being for other humans
remember, character is what you do when noone is watching.
and if that pig truly needed it, i would share with it for i have more to give even though i have nothing.
to give my life, or at least a week of it each time, for helping others would be fine with me. to know that the world i leave may/may not be better but that i TRIED would be all the warm fussy i need. i think the question is, if you were never congratulated, thanked, had a shrine built to you, etc. would you continue to do it knowing that nobody knew or cared.
almost all of you go to a job that you probably don't like, work with some folks you could care less about, and the majority of you will never be compensated or thanked for your duty but you still show up and for what?? a paycheck.
so why is it crazy to think that there are people out there doing what they LOVE and BELIEVE in for free and many at the cost of their own life. its not about being a martyr, its about being a human being for other humans
remember, character is what you do when noone is watching.
and if that pig truly needed it, i would share with it for i have more to give even though i have nothing.
Last edited by anticlmber on Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Like me on facebook but hate me in real life
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Barnacle Ben
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You never answered my question. What about donations to the Access Fund or RRGCC, etc., especially when the procurement of land results in the avoidance of development on it?pigsteak wrote: seems like the theme here is "my little mess doesn't matter when the big polluters are responsible"..
I always thought climbers were environmentally friendly, but I stand corrected.
I might be mistaken, but I think climbers and other outdoors groups lobbied pretty hard in favor of that big BLM dedication out in Utah. Bush* tried to deed the land to his oil buddies when he left office, Obama* (via Ken Salazar I believe) nixed it.
*Note: I am not in favor of either administration; I think they both largely suck. But I was glad the Obama admin. did this.
"But the motto was, never think you're that cool - you're still just climbing rocks...in the woods...with bugs...and everyone thinks you're crazy."
- Dave Graham
- Dave Graham
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Barnacle Ben
- Posts: 265
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According to its 2008 Annual Report (the most recent one available), the Access Fund received about $230k in individual and foundational donations, and $430k in member dues. Obviously, 'someone' is footing the bill to pay for land that remain largely undeveloped.
http://www.accessfund.org/atf/cf/%7B1F5 ... Report.pdf
http://www.accessfund.org/atf/cf/%7B1F5 ... Report.pdf
"But the motto was, never think you're that cool - you're still just climbing rocks...in the woods...with bugs...and everyone thinks you're crazy."
- Dave Graham
- Dave Graham
toad857, and those of us that have no intention of breeding?
Sadly, most of these insights seem a bit banal to me. Every being has the potential for wisdom and a bit less pedestrian motivations. I am sad for those that remain ignorant of their potential to be more than a bunch of cells holding hands.
Mostly, I just can't stop believing every little bit helps.
Sadly, most of these insights seem a bit banal to me. Every being has the potential for wisdom and a bit less pedestrian motivations. I am sad for those that remain ignorant of their potential to be more than a bunch of cells holding hands.
Mostly, I just can't stop believing every little bit helps.
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anticlmber
- Posts: 3393
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:34 am
to charlie and anti...the problem is that our society has taken the word 'selfish" as a negative....why is looking out for self interests a bad thing?
why do people give to the Access Fund? Because they like to climb which is a selfish pursuit.
Why do folks help other people out in need? Maybe your Mom taught you that (thereby you get to please Mom). maybe your beliefs promise reward for doing well in this life (reward). Mybe you sit back and believe in karma, therfore your good deed will beneft you in the future. Maybe you do it becasue you no helping the less fortunate makes society as a whole better (again, the reward)...
I agree with rjackson...if doing good were met with a ball peen hammer everytime everyone of us would cease at sometime....
this isn't about pretending people aren't better than others...of course they are. we all have different levels of ego stroking we need, but every single on of us have the need. you're lying if you deny that.
why do people give to the Access Fund? Because they like to climb which is a selfish pursuit.
Why do folks help other people out in need? Maybe your Mom taught you that (thereby you get to please Mom). maybe your beliefs promise reward for doing well in this life (reward). Mybe you sit back and believe in karma, therfore your good deed will beneft you in the future. Maybe you do it becasue you no helping the less fortunate makes society as a whole better (again, the reward)...
I agree with rjackson...if doing good were met with a ball peen hammer everytime everyone of us would cease at sometime....
this isn't about pretending people aren't better than others...of course they are. we all have different levels of ego stroking we need, but every single on of us have the need. you're lying if you deny that.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
That just doesn't seem like a useful way of thinking about things to me. You see someone working for something else, and say they are doing it for themselves. It's not that they maybe aren't trying to make their situation better too, but it discounts the efforts that may largely be directed towards something other than themselves.
It's like looking at the world, which we all know has way too many opportunities for "Boo" and essentially trivializing an opportunity for a "Yay" and turning it into a "Meh" because nobody is ever capable of an altruistic action. That sucks, and you cannot convince me to think like that. I'm sad for people that do think like that.
It's like looking at the world, which we all know has way too many opportunities for "Boo" and essentially trivializing an opportunity for a "Yay" and turning it into a "Meh" because nobody is ever capable of an altruistic action. That sucks, and you cannot convince me to think like that. I'm sad for people that do think like that.