Christians?

Post by **caribe** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:02 pm

dipsi wrote:I believe that we are given life and after we receive that gift, we are set in motion on a path.

Does this philosophy change if you realize that before you were, you can't be given anything?
[] The way we get life is we are born, but when we are born we are not who we are now. Many changes must occur. Our notions of who we are seem to be much more concrete than ourselves.
[] Past events + the starting point make us who we are. It can not be proper to say someone receives the gift of life.
[] Since the universe was once without us, it is entirely logical that the universe returns to its original state after we die.
[] So we are concepts. Given specifications a, b, c . . . and z, we can be again . . . or can we? What is the relationship between me (who was created) and the many concepts who were not? Why should I ever feel gratitude for the fact that I am here if the non-created can not feel indignation for the fact that they are not here?

Post by **pigsteak** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:25 pm

wow...in this instance, dipsi made way more sense than caribe. caribe, your post sounds like the mumble jumble they taught in sunday school..my eyes glaze over...

dipsi, like I mentioned to Art, everyone has to find their own way to make sense of life, and it seems you have found a path that honestly works for you. That would be my hope for everyone.

Post by **caribe** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:07 pm

Pig, let's take it one step at a time. Can you gift anything to anyone who does not exist?
[] If you do not want to go through the pain of one step at a time, tell me at what point you don't understand me.

Post by **pigsteak** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:28 pm

actually, before going there, let's deal with anohter christmas time fallacy that flies everywhere.

the adgae "it is better to give than receive"...if that were true, then somehow the giver is getting the better end of the deal. every giving has to have a receiving there to balance the equation. the reciever must be getting shafted. one thing can't be superior (better) unless there is an inferior. if the giver is getting the better deal, then the mere act of giving is actually making someone else the receiver of the short end of the stick. so the best thing your good friends can do is insist that they give you gifts..that way, you are allowing them to receive the most joy, and you take the lesser.

my guess is the whole "better to give than recieve" message is a ploy by big business to get us to buy crap.

Post by **caribe** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:41 pm

pigsteak wrote:my guess is the whole "better to give than recieve" message is a ploy by big business to get us to buy crap.

I tend not to give Xmas gifts. My logic is that if you give me one this year, perhaps you will learn and not give me one next year.

Post by **dipsi** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:27 pm

caribe wrote:Pig, let's take it one step at a time. Can you gift anything to anyone who does not exist?
[] If you do not want to go through the pain of one step at a time, tell me at what point you don't understand me.

How does anyone know I didn't exist before? Perhaps I chose to receive the gift of life. I have no memories of my Spirit before it inhabited this body, but I am satisfied that if I walk well along my path, I will live on.

I am not asking anyone to accept my beliefs, just explaining what I believe. The gift of life is not a concept everyone accepts, and that's okay too.

Post by **mike_a_lafontaine** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:53 am

pigsteak wrote: Stryper was right in the heart of cheese glam metal in the 80's, and I actually was a huge fan.

Wow. I have some equally embarrassing confessions about growing up in the 80's, just not sure I'd ever admit to them. You, sir, have balls of steel!

Post by **pigsteak** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:05 am

lol Mike...every situation makes us who we are today, for better or worse....

Post by **gripster** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:23 pm

dipsi, check out: http://www.amazon.com/How-Know-God-Apho ... 0874810418

no reason yoga can't be a way to connect spiritually, regardless of your religion. I believe this book was written with Hinduism specifically in mind, but the concepts can be applied to any belief system.

Post by **dipsi** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:07 pm

gripster wrote:dipsi, check out: http://www.amazon.com/How-Know-God-Apho ... 0874810418

no reason yoga can't be a way to connect spiritually, regardless of your religion. I believe this book was written with Hinduism specifically in mind, but the concepts can be applied to any belief system.

Thanks! I'll check it out!